SGA 3.17: Sunday

[trinityofone]

Um. Okay. I'm not really sure how to approach this. There are a lot of little things that I'm actually more interested in discussing. But, uh.

Okay, I knew it was going to happen. I try really hard to stay unspoiled, and actually in my experience people were pretty good this time. But you hear one innocuous thing, and you put it together with another innocuous thing...and you just know. Especially when it's telegraphed from the beginning that there's going to be some rather major fishing-related guilt going on.

As for Carson being, well, dead (I seemed to be heading toward euphemism earlier), I, like John, am not really feeling anything yet? (And did he really say what I think he said? "I'm looking forward to feeling something"? Jesus. Therapy, John. Therapy. <--By which I mean, I love you so much more when you are fucked up.) I mean, I feel bad, but not devastated—if, say, Zelenka had died? I would be incoherent right now. So, actually, I'm having an appropriate reaction to the death of a TV character. This is uncharacteristic of me! Either I am maturing as a person, or...well, I'll admit that Carson was never my favorite character. I liked him best when he was being comically frightened—my two favorite bits were "It could be lunch-related" and "I wish I weren't bloody here!" I never really got his friendship with Rodney, because it never seemed like much of a friendship to me. Carson always seemed so surprised when Rodney did something good! (Like his shock when Rodney was nice to the wounded Marine in 'Phantoms.' What was with that?) So, yeah, I'm feeling a bit blank on this right now. Don't hate me.

Aside from the BIG SHOCK there were a lot of little shocking things in this episode. Like:

1. John was MARRIED? MARRIED? See, I don't know what to make of this. Either it's true, and we're about to start seeing a lot of stories where John's wife left him because he was clearly gay (What? That was my first thought. You weren't very good at marriage BECAUSE YOU ARE GAY), or it's not true, and John is lying. I can see that, too. John is weird.

2. Speaking of: Joe, were you meaning to look hopeful when you asked Ronon if he'd been dating a man? Hopeful, and then disappointed? 'Cause that's how it came off. Just so you know.

3. Ronon, why're you pushing Teyla at John? I thought you had a crush on Teyla. Or on Elizabeth? Or is it Rodney now, you slut.

4. I didn't really get the Teyla/John thing in this episode. I get, and could even like, Teyla/John in general, but the combination of 1) Teyla's conversation at the beginning, 2) the scene where Teyla backs out of the golf game, and 3) Ronon and John's conversation didn't really make sense to me. I mean, we were supposed to think that Teyla was talking about John at the beginning there, weren't we? (Or not? Maybe it's Teyla's Marine from M&MM? Or maybe Rodney OH MY GOD PLEASE YES.) I don't really see how John could be oblivious about some sort of undercurrent of attraction between him and Teyla. I mean, there have been, among other things, that retrovirus induced kiss; with John/Rodney I can imagine obliviousness (because those denial blinders would be up like whoa) but with John/Teyla? I've tended to see it more like, "We obviously like each other, but John, dear, you gotta try to be a little less messed up first." But maybe that's just me.

So I also don't understand why Teyla was so awkward in the scene with John and Ronon. Was she really that embarrassed about blowing off golf?

5. However—OMG, liviapenn! Teyla almost started talking about Athosian sexual beliefs and practices! So, so close! But hey, her hesitance is something to work with, at least. Teyla pr0n, coming right up! (Heh. Punny, eh?)

6. This should have been number 1: DRESS BLUES OMG. With hats absent; I am unsurprised.

7. Rodney? Also hot in his suit.

8. Elizabeth apparently was not kidding when she complimented John's beard in 'Epiphany.' I wish she and cute beardy scientist had better chemistry, but all things considered, I think she should be pleased he didn't die.

9. I can't believe they seriously went with the 'Lorne paints' thing. Kavan, you are adorable, but you look really silly holding a palette.

10. Zelenka wins at chess. I want a John/Radek chess-off NOW.

11. Dr. Biro = Dory the fish?

12. James Watson, the discoverer of the structure of DNA, works on Atlantis? And he's junior to Rodney? Harsh, man.

13. I didn't hate Katie Brown in this! I actually rather liked her—she showed a little more backbone (though she could hardly have shown less), and she seemed less like she has no idea what she's getting into with Rodney, as she did in 'Duet.' If she genuinely is willing to look past his admittedly many many faults and see the humor and the sweetness and the really really great shoulders, then more power to her! I really liked how they played the fern-sitting scene (and how much do I love fern-sitting? I have never been on a date that involved anything as awesome as fern-sitting!); I loved how it went back to Jeannie, and how Rodney was honestly concerned about his personality flaws, and marriage! (!!!) That was awkward, but believable, and if Rodney ever gets married and has kids, I think I will die of happiness.

...And yet at the same time I still want to ship McKay/Sheppard above anything else. SHUT UP THIS IS NOT CONTRADICTORY.

14. Guilt. Oh, man. That's the worst thing about this for me. Rodney's going to feel responsible and guilty forever, which is awful, because this is genuinely not his fault. It's like when I sometimes worry that the one time I'm too short with either of my parents on the phone and don't say "I love you" before I hang up will be the time when they get in a car accident and die before I can talk to them again. Ouch. Gero, you bastard.

15. I did like how the episode was structured. Going further back each time, then also pushing farther forward—nice. Though the last scene, unfortunately, didn't really work for me. I wish they'd framed it better: clearly showed that Rodney was dreaming or whatever. Because otherwise it just seems a little...weird. Faux? I dunno.

Anyway, I thought it was a well-done episode, although one that left me scratching my head on several points. One thing I'm curious about: does anyone know any Doylist, or production-related, reasons why they killed Carson? We're they (and I mean you, Gero!) just desperate to kill someone, and they (THANK GOD) answered my prayers and didn't whack Zelenka? And have I been hallucinating the rumors that Paul McGillion is going to be back a little next year? (And yeah, I know: Paul McGillion doesn't necessarily mean Carson, and of course what Rodney said in the dream sequence automatically made me think, "Alterna!Carson!")

In conclusion: "It's all Heightmeyer's doing"? AHAHAHAHAHA. She's totally EVOL!!! I knew it!

Comments

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

There was so much in this episode that made me gape or squeak or scratch my head, but I think the main one was as you mentioned - the supposed best-friendness of Rodney and Carson. It seems like forced intimacy in order to make it have more of an impact, really. I mean, I can kinda see Carson considering Rodney his best friend, but not so much the other way around.

I suppose, given his supposed relationship with Katie - he seemed to consider them something of a couple even though it doesn't sound like there's been much in the way of couplin' going on - it could just be an automatic way of thinking about things. Like, mentally classifying relationships early on and then leaving them in that box without really considering it any further afterwards. Makes things easier and leaves more time for lab-related things. Best friend by virtue of being the longest serving, perhaps.

The thing that this episode confirmed more than anything else in my mind, though, is that Carson is was really quite enormously gay.

(And the way Zelenka said his name was absolutely adorable and possibly my favourite moment. I'm sad, it's true.)

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

It's always seemed forced to me, and here that was unfortunate, because I think Carson's death would have meant more to me if I really felt that Rodney was losing someone important to him, rather than a coworker he respected whose death he will now feel guilty about forever.

What you say about Rodney automatically categorizing relationships makes sense, although it's kind of sad. I hope—and I really do think he is making progress in that direction—that he becomes able to forge more meaningful ties that that. Like with his team!

You know, I never really thought of Carson as gay (more like asexual) but, er...I do see your point.

Also, I just realized: where was Cadman in all of this?

[drlense.livejournal.com]

The fishing thing was like an anvil. Just a leeeetle bit too much.

I also like Katie Brown here- and I hated her in Duet. She seemed to have a little bit more of a personality, and I agree that I liked the arc to Rodney's character development. Why can't they do that for the other characters?

Ronon is just awesome. Every second he's on screen.

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

Ronon is so awesome. It's something I always question in fic, when people characterise him as impassive and such because he spends the whole time laughing at everyone else. So cute. *g*

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I found myself having such odd affection for Katie and her ferns! Huh.

Why can't they do that for the other characters?

*is tempted to credit the Hewlett*

Ronon is just awesome. Every second he's on screen.

He rocked pretty hard in this ep. I loved him taking the piss out of John. And I want more Ronon/Rodney bonding!

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

I also don't understand why Teyla was so awkward in the scene with John and Ronon. Was she really that embarrassed about blowing off golf?

Once I saw the entire ep, it came across to me as John is interested in Teyla. She doesn't reciprocate, but does regard him as a close friend and so feels awkward about backing out of spending time with him.

However, that doesn't jibe with the rest of canon where John seems to be attracted to her, but only in the sense of "wow, she's gorgeous."

While I like the deliberate ambiguity that lets us read whatever we want into things, the Teyla bit at the beginning was a little too coy. Personally, I think she was talking about Carson.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

About CARSON? Whoa, that'd put a wicked spin on it! ;-)

But yeah: as much as I like ambiguity, I don't like it to the point of confusion. Or the point where it makes people seem OOC. I could see a John/Teyla relationship developing, but the hints in this episode didn't relate to how I would see such a relationship at all. So was it about something else? I'm confused!

[pqueen.livejournal.com]

Ha! Yes. Thank you. That's exactly what I thought, too. That she was talking about Carson. Ever since the funeral last season, I've been seeing all the little moments between Carson and Teyla.

[abbylee]

I can't decide if I want to talk a lot about this episode, or just shut up about it. Because, yeah, so many contradictory feelings.

What was with Rodney figuring out about exploding tumours, and instead of tracking down the guy asap, calls in his team and starts explaining to them?!?! Huh, what?

I love how no one's really talking about John being married once, because it's like the least weird and confusing thing that happened in the episode :)

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I almost didn't make this post, but then I figured silently going "wah...huh?" all day would be worse.

What was with Rodney figuring out about exploding tumours, and instead of tracking down the guy asap, calls in his team and starts explaining to them?!?!

That happens in a lot of episodes (exposition takes priority over safety, apparently) but this was especially bad. Couldn't they have had that same conversation while looking for Watson, instead of in front of the screen?

John married? Yeah, that almost seems like something you can take or leave. What I want to figure out is what the hell was going on with John and Teyla!

[amireal.livejournal.com]

Um, as for #6. That was actually correctly done, as they are indoors. I'm pretty sure it's not just the marines that don't wear cover indoors.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have no idea of actual procedure. I'm just making fun of John's hair. *g*

[randomeliza.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree with all of this, but the one thing that really jarred me that I really didn't like that I didn't see you mention was the whole Rodney saying Carson was the closest thing he had to a best friend. What's John, chopped liver? The only fanwank I can do to make that make sense is that John and Rodney are actually doing it, and so John has moved in Rodney's mind from being Best Friend to being Boyfriend. Which is a fanwank I like, but somehow don't think is what the writers had in mind...

6. This should have been number 1: DRESS BLUES OMG. With hats absent; I am unsurprised.

I MADE NOISES. LOTS OF NOISES. And I totally thought of you. THEY FINALLY DID IT! And how is it possible that John STILL looks rumpled and just-sexed, even in uniform? Surely that should be impossible. Oh, John. MAKE OUT WITH ME PLZ.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I think I failed to mention the "closest thing to a best friend" because it's SO OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE. I didn't believe it at all. Unless, as you say, Rodney just naturally thinks of John as so much more than that. Or! It was one of those lies you tell to dead people. ;-)

John rocked the uniform. Hard. *heart*

[toft-froggy.livejournal.com]

*clings to sensible episode post*

I'm feeling so much better about this episode now, and your reactions look pretty much like what mine are going to be. Especially John and marriage. It was so his last-ditch attempt to prove his heterosexuality to himself before she caught him blowing the best man at the reception*. And yes. John is weird. That is really what he is.

*I do not actually think that he is his own father.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

*I do not actually think that he is his own father.

I think you should have to make that clarifying statement at the end of all the comments you make for the rest of your life forever. *eg*

(Though, one of things I loved about your story was: really, it explains so much!)

John mentioned the marriage in such a flip way. I think if it had been played as like, a deeply emotional thing for him to recount, I'd've been worried, but it wasn't; he just said that he sucked at it. THIS I BELIEVE.

Sadly, I no longer have a squishy icon. D:

[aphelant.livejournal.com]

11. Dr. Biro = Dory the fish?

I COULD NOT PLACE WHO SHE REMINDED ME OF, BUT NOW. NOW I AM TRAUMATIZED.

(in a completely unrelated note, I FINALLY GOT MY HANDS ON A COPY OF THE BOOK WITH MY POEM IN IT and I MAILED IT TO YOU TODAY. I'M SO SORRY IT TOOK, LIKE, THREE MONTHS TO BE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC. DDDD:)

Luckily, I do!

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

NOW I AM TRAUMATIZED.

Now, I want to write lots of hyper!hyper! fic from Biro's POV. Which one of us is healthier? (Answer: you.)

And yay book with poem! I can't wait to read it!

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

I think John tells Teyla that Carson's death hasn't quite sunk in yet, and he's not looking forward to the moment when it does. Which... awww. There will be angsty drunkenness and possibly lots of angsty drunken sex, as fanon dictates.

John is totally George Clooney of Atlantis. And Ronon's game with handkerchiefs was totally called Tease Your Barely Closeted Gay Friend in the original Satedan.

Anyway, yeah - there were moments when I just knew the writing was sacrificing canon for the sake of recognizing the actors. Rodney and Carson were not best friends in that crew; David and Paul are. John doesn't strike me as someone who's been playing golf since the age of 6, but Joe? Hell, yeah. I never thought I'd complain about this, but: SGA is a bit too fannish at times, especially if an ep is used as a playground for the people behind the scenes rather than a sci-fi narrative. I can understand the sentimental pull to give Paul a fabulous farewell, but it was just not very good storytelling.

[not-sally.livejournal.com]

Ok, you win at life.

11. Dr. Biro = Dory the fish?
THANK YOU! that's the best comparison ever. Obviously, it only makes me like her more.

But seriously, it's like you read my mind and then type it so I can go: "OMG TOTALLY!!" every time you post an ep. review.

[korilian.livejournal.com]

Just imagine Rodney marrying the woman that cured Leukemia! No really, imagine...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Awww! Their Nobel Prizes could be twins!

[furina-1975.livejournal.com]

Dr. Biro is not Dory the Fish. She was voiced by Ellen DeGenerous. Who sounds like Biro a bit. Also, I would play golf if I could play it with Ronon Rules.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know. I didn't mean literally. Just...I see a spiritual connection, don't you?

[sp23.livejournal.com]

I'm posting this comment before I read anyone else's comment, but...

(Like his shock when Rodney was nice to the wounded Marine in 'Phantoms.' What was with that?)

Jesus, Lord, yes! That's what makes it feel so...off. Not only the part where we never saw the whole BFF vibe, but Carson's whole attitude toward Rodney this season. More than once he acted shocked when Rodney's kinder, gentler side (that we all know and love so well) was shown. And that would only make sense if he really wasn't aware of just how much Rodney had changed since Antarctica. Christ, even Gall in The Defiant One realized how much Rodney had changed and that was back in Season One!

I'm with you that I'm so glad if someone had to go that it wasn't Zelenka or even Lorne. I like both those guys way more than I liked Carson. Carson was good as a recurring character, but he didn't have the stones to be a regular character. Plus, the writers did a piss-poor job in shoehorning him into episodes he really didn't belong - Sateda, anyone?

All-in-all, I really liked this episode, exploding tumors and all. I'll miss Season 1 and 2 Carson, but not Season 3 Carson.

[sonofzeal.livejournal.com]

Merry Christmas. (http://slashdot.org/articles/07/01/17/1322253.shtml)

[smalldiver.livejournal.com]

*Drops in from the newsletter*

I mean, we were supposed to think that Teyla was talking about John at the beginning there, weren't we? (Or not? Maybe it's Teyla's Marine from M&MM? Or maybe Rodney OH MY GOD PLEASE YES.)

See, am I the only person who thought she was talking about Carson? Every other reviewer assumes that it's John, but I'm seeing major Teyla/Carson crush-vibes going on...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

No, lots of other people said they thought it was Teyla/Carson. (If you dig around in the comments on this post you'll see quite a bit of that, too.) I dunno, I didn't see it, but I may be blinded by the fact that Carson has always seemed decidedly asexual to me.