SGA 3.17: Sunday

[trinityofone]

Um. Okay. I'm not really sure how to approach this. There are a lot of little things that I'm actually more interested in discussing. But, uh.

Okay, I knew it was going to happen. I try really hard to stay unspoiled, and actually in my experience people were pretty good this time. But you hear one innocuous thing, and you put it together with another innocuous thing...and you just know. Especially when it's telegraphed from the beginning that there's going to be some rather major fishing-related guilt going on.

As for Carson being, well, dead (I seemed to be heading toward euphemism earlier), I, like John, am not really feeling anything yet? (And did he really say what I think he said? "I'm looking forward to feeling something"? Jesus. Therapy, John. Therapy. <--By which I mean, I love you so much more when you are fucked up.) I mean, I feel bad, but not devastated—if, say, Zelenka had died? I would be incoherent right now. So, actually, I'm having an appropriate reaction to the death of a TV character. This is uncharacteristic of me! Either I am maturing as a person, or...well, I'll admit that Carson was never my favorite character. I liked him best when he was being comically frightened—my two favorite bits were "It could be lunch-related" and "I wish I weren't bloody here!" I never really got his friendship with Rodney, because it never seemed like much of a friendship to me. Carson always seemed so surprised when Rodney did something good! (Like his shock when Rodney was nice to the wounded Marine in 'Phantoms.' What was with that?) So, yeah, I'm feeling a bit blank on this right now. Don't hate me.

Aside from the BIG SHOCK there were a lot of little shocking things in this episode. Like:

1. John was MARRIED? MARRIED? See, I don't know what to make of this. Either it's true, and we're about to start seeing a lot of stories where John's wife left him because he was clearly gay (What? That was my first thought. You weren't very good at marriage BECAUSE YOU ARE GAY), or it's not true, and John is lying. I can see that, too. John is weird.

2. Speaking of: Joe, were you meaning to look hopeful when you asked Ronon if he'd been dating a man? Hopeful, and then disappointed? 'Cause that's how it came off. Just so you know.

3. Ronon, why're you pushing Teyla at John? I thought you had a crush on Teyla. Or on Elizabeth? Or is it Rodney now, you slut.

4. I didn't really get the Teyla/John thing in this episode. I get, and could even like, Teyla/John in general, but the combination of 1) Teyla's conversation at the beginning, 2) the scene where Teyla backs out of the golf game, and 3) Ronon and John's conversation didn't really make sense to me. I mean, we were supposed to think that Teyla was talking about John at the beginning there, weren't we? (Or not? Maybe it's Teyla's Marine from M&MM? Or maybe Rodney OH MY GOD PLEASE YES.) I don't really see how John could be oblivious about some sort of undercurrent of attraction between him and Teyla. I mean, there have been, among other things, that retrovirus induced kiss; with John/Rodney I can imagine obliviousness (because those denial blinders would be up like whoa) but with John/Teyla? I've tended to see it more like, "We obviously like each other, but John, dear, you gotta try to be a little less messed up first." But maybe that's just me.

So I also don't understand why Teyla was so awkward in the scene with John and Ronon. Was she really that embarrassed about blowing off golf?

5. However—OMG, liviapenn! Teyla almost started talking about Athosian sexual beliefs and practices! So, so close! But hey, her hesitance is something to work with, at least. Teyla pr0n, coming right up! (Heh. Punny, eh?)

6. This should have been number 1: DRESS BLUES OMG. With hats absent; I am unsurprised.

7. Rodney? Also hot in his suit.

8. Elizabeth apparently was not kidding when she complimented John's beard in 'Epiphany.' I wish she and cute beardy scientist had better chemistry, but all things considered, I think she should be pleased he didn't die.

9. I can't believe they seriously went with the 'Lorne paints' thing. Kavan, you are adorable, but you look really silly holding a palette.

10. Zelenka wins at chess. I want a John/Radek chess-off NOW.

11. Dr. Biro = Dory the fish?

12. James Watson, the discoverer of the structure of DNA, works on Atlantis? And he's junior to Rodney? Harsh, man.

13. I didn't hate Katie Brown in this! I actually rather liked her—she showed a little more backbone (though she could hardly have shown less), and she seemed less like she has no idea what she's getting into with Rodney, as she did in 'Duet.' If she genuinely is willing to look past his admittedly many many faults and see the humor and the sweetness and the really really great shoulders, then more power to her! I really liked how they played the fern-sitting scene (and how much do I love fern-sitting? I have never been on a date that involved anything as awesome as fern-sitting!); I loved how it went back to Jeannie, and how Rodney was honestly concerned about his personality flaws, and marriage! (!!!) That was awkward, but believable, and if Rodney ever gets married and has kids, I think I will die of happiness.

...And yet at the same time I still want to ship McKay/Sheppard above anything else. SHUT UP THIS IS NOT CONTRADICTORY.

14. Guilt. Oh, man. That's the worst thing about this for me. Rodney's going to feel responsible and guilty forever, which is awful, because this is genuinely not his fault. It's like when I sometimes worry that the one time I'm too short with either of my parents on the phone and don't say "I love you" before I hang up will be the time when they get in a car accident and die before I can talk to them again. Ouch. Gero, you bastard.

15. I did like how the episode was structured. Going further back each time, then also pushing farther forward—nice. Though the last scene, unfortunately, didn't really work for me. I wish they'd framed it better: clearly showed that Rodney was dreaming or whatever. Because otherwise it just seems a little...weird. Faux? I dunno.

Anyway, I thought it was a well-done episode, although one that left me scratching my head on several points. One thing I'm curious about: does anyone know any Doylist, or production-related, reasons why they killed Carson? We're they (and I mean you, Gero!) just desperate to kill someone, and they (THANK GOD) answered my prayers and didn't whack Zelenka? And have I been hallucinating the rumors that Paul McGillion is going to be back a little next year? (And yeah, I know: Paul McGillion doesn't necessarily mean Carson, and of course what Rodney said in the dream sequence automatically made me think, "Alterna!Carson!")

In conclusion: "It's all Heightmeyer's doing"? AHAHAHAHAHA. She's totally EVOL!!! I knew it!

Comments

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

There was so much in this episode that made me gape or squeak or scratch my head, but I think the main one was as you mentioned - the supposed best-friendness of Rodney and Carson. It seems like forced intimacy in order to make it have more of an impact, really. I mean, I can kinda see Carson considering Rodney his best friend, but not so much the other way around.

I suppose, given his supposed relationship with Katie - he seemed to consider them something of a couple even though it doesn't sound like there's been much in the way of couplin' going on - it could just be an automatic way of thinking about things. Like, mentally classifying relationships early on and then leaving them in that box without really considering it any further afterwards. Makes things easier and leaves more time for lab-related things. Best friend by virtue of being the longest serving, perhaps.

The thing that this episode confirmed more than anything else in my mind, though, is that Carson is was really quite enormously gay.

(And the way Zelenka said his name was absolutely adorable and possibly my favourite moment. I'm sad, it's true.)

[drlense.livejournal.com]

The fishing thing was like an anvil. Just a leeeetle bit too much.

I also like Katie Brown here- and I hated her in Duet. She seemed to have a little bit more of a personality, and I agree that I liked the arc to Rodney's character development. Why can't they do that for the other characters?

Ronon is just awesome. Every second he's on screen.

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

Ronon is so awesome. It's something I always question in fic, when people characterise him as impassive and such because he spends the whole time laughing at everyone else. So cute. *g*

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

It's always seemed forced to me, and here that was unfortunate, because I think Carson's death would have meant more to me if I really felt that Rodney was losing someone important to him, rather than a coworker he respected whose death he will now feel guilty about forever.

What you say about Rodney automatically categorizing relationships makes sense, although it's kind of sad. I hope—and I really do think he is making progress in that direction—that he becomes able to forge more meaningful ties that that. Like with his team!

You know, I never really thought of Carson as gay (more like asexual) but, er...I do see your point.

Also, I just realized: where was Cadman in all of this?

[drlense.livejournal.com]

I think they envisioned him as this stoic he-man, but JM plays the part so much differently, and better, than that- it's amazing. You just get the sense that he thinks these Earth people are outrageously amusing.

He's turned into one of my favorite characters.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I found myself having such odd affection for Katie and her ferns! Huh.

Why can't they do that for the other characters?

*is tempted to credit the Hewlett*

Ronon is just awesome. Every second he's on screen.

He rocked pretty hard in this ep. I loved him taking the piss out of John. And I want more Ronon/Rodney bonding!

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I didn't care for him much at first, but he's growing on me in a huge way. It's definitely that spark of humor—huge points to Jason!

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

I also don't understand why Teyla was so awkward in the scene with John and Ronon. Was she really that embarrassed about blowing off golf?

Once I saw the entire ep, it came across to me as John is interested in Teyla. She doesn't reciprocate, but does regard him as a close friend and so feels awkward about backing out of spending time with him.

However, that doesn't jibe with the rest of canon where John seems to be attracted to her, but only in the sense of "wow, she's gorgeous."

While I like the deliberate ambiguity that lets us read whatever we want into things, the Teyla bit at the beginning was a little too coy. Personally, I think she was talking about Carson.

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

It's always possible that Rodney doesn't consider John his best friend because he doesn't think John'd say the same, and he's entirely too proud for that sort of unequal relationship. Plus it's all so complicated.

I definitely think he's making a lot of progress with people, though - the easiest evidence of that is comparing Duet with Sunday. And while the improvement in interpersonal relationships is great, and all, he's still Rodney and that's the best thing.

I see what you mean about Carson being asexual, but I've always thought of him more as celibate. A 'confirmed bachelor' living with his mother and dreadfully respectful of women. Carson belongs in a book from the '30s, I think.

I wondered about Cadman too. Also Parrish, but that's just the automatic wishful thinking that occurs every time I see Lorne. :D?

[abbylee]

I can't decide if I want to talk a lot about this episode, or just shut up about it. Because, yeah, so many contradictory feelings.

What was with Rodney figuring out about exploding tumours, and instead of tracking down the guy asap, calls in his team and starts explaining to them?!?! Huh, what?

I love how no one's really talking about John being married once, because it's like the least weird and confusing thing that happened in the episode :)

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

About CARSON? Whoa, that'd put a wicked spin on it! ;-)

But yeah: as much as I like ambiguity, I don't like it to the point of confusion. Or the point where it makes people seem OOC. I could see a John/Teyla relationship developing, but the hints in this episode didn't relate to how I would see such a relationship at all. So was it about something else? I'm confused!

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

I've always thought there was nice chemistry between Carson and Teyla. They're one of the few het pairings that work for me.

I'm confused!

You're not the only one.

Continuity is not their strength. OTOH, it leaves things wide open for us to play most of the time.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I almost didn't make this post, but then I figured silently going "wah...huh?" all day would be worse.

What was with Rodney figuring out about exploding tumours, and instead of tracking down the guy asap, calls in his team and starts explaining to them?!?!

That happens in a lot of episodes (exposition takes priority over safety, apparently) but this was especially bad. Couldn't they have had that same conversation while looking for Watson, instead of in front of the screen?

John married? Yeah, that almost seems like something you can take or leave. What I want to figure out is what the hell was going on with John and Teyla!

[amireal.livejournal.com]

Um, as for #6. That was actually correctly done, as they are indoors. I'm pretty sure it's not just the marines that don't wear cover indoors.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

I actually worried it might be John-- and then between the hand hold on the way to the infirmary and the "great loss" at the end of the ep-- I think it might've been carson.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have no idea of actual procedure. I'm just making fun of John's hair. *g*

...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I didn't really get that. I think I need to watch it again.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Plus it's all so complicated.

*nods* They're weird about each other! I still don't think anyone's come up with a better definition than that.

Carson belongs in a book from the '30s, I think.

Or a Henry James novel.

It would have been interesting to wrap up the Cadman/Beckett relationship in some way, even considering that they supposedly broke up before 'Return Pt. 1.' Also, I'm just still interested in Cadman, so I want Jaime Ray Newman to stop having illicit sex on Veronica Mars and come back over to SGA!

I doubt we'll ever see Parrish again. (Though we did get a return visit from Biro in this ep, so who knows?) At least 'The Game' opened up fun Lorne/Zelenka possibilities.

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

Ah yes. *happy sigh* Zelenka. The fact that he's a chess shark makes me quite unreasonably happy. And the moment that killed me the most in this episode, without question, was the ridiculous height difference between Zelenka and Ronon, on opposite sides of the coffin. Definitely the part that I got closest to choking up. If I were ever to slash Carson with anyone, see, it'd be because of the hunching over laptops with Radek.

I, too, doubt we'll see Parrish again. I just hold out faint hope because there was that fingers hooking in jacket thing that Rodney and John indulged in in 'The Game' and which was therefore made so ridiculously and irrevocably hot.

...and I'm a sucker for the accent, I'll admit. XD

Re: ...

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

...I thought it was Ronon. Carrying on from the subtext in 'Echoes', and all. Was that just me?

I was blinded by all the CARSON IS GAY signals I kept picking up, possibly, but that kinda comes out of nowhere for me. XD

Re: ...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I think if there's one thing we can all agree on about Teyla's (or really Gero's!) sly hints is that she could have been talking about ANYBODY. (So if I want to pretend it's Rodney, I can do that, right? Right? I mean, he certainly fits the "oblivious" remark...)

Re: ...

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

...but... but John/Rodney! *makes grabby hands at pairing*




Oh, alright. I admit I'm a sucker for anything involving Rodney. Like, at all.

Re: ...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I secretly ship Rodney/women. But especially Rodney/Teyla.

I've been thinking I want to hold a Rodney hetficathon, but I'm worried my fellow slashers would shun me. *sad*

Re: ...

[miscellanny.livejournal.com]

Is there anything in particular that prompted it? I've been a slasher since 13, so I have kind of a blinkered view of most things, these days, looking at them from a purely slashy perspective. I probably wouldn't even have noticed.

Green Wing actually surprised me because I was a full-blown supporter of the main het romantic pairing in that, see.

I personally would totally be in favour of a hetficathon, absolutely, but that's mostly because I will read anything with well-characterised Rodney, and the more of that there is available, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Re: ...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

No, not prompted by anything in particular. I mean, I've always tended to be someone who's interested in a whole lot of pairings, slash or het (in BtVS, I basically shipped Spike/anyone, although I'll admit it was the Spike/Buffy that initially drew me). I started out very OTPish in SGA, though. However, while I'm not bored with McKay/Sheppard (far from!), I am interested in other things, too. Especially, as you say, stuff with a well-characterized Rodney and the more the better. And I've noticed that John tends to get more hetfic and Rodney more other slashfic, and I'd like to even it out some.

Plus, the idea of Rodney/Teyla just delights me in some undefinable way.