Ooh, yay! I wanted to ask you about this because I knew you'd have good thinky thoughts, and indeed you do. :)
Your two happy ending scenarios are pretty much the same as mine have always been, although I think lately I've swung pretty resolutely toward No. 1. I think a lot of my problems with the "happy in Heaven" scenario are the same as yours, combined perhaps with a healthy dose of Dean's own skepticism. Mystically, metaphysically together forever doesn't actually sound that great to me somehow? Maybe I'm too narrow-minded, too rooted in the physical, but SO'S DEAN, and that shall be my excuse.
Also, option 2 would seem to require Castiel having to deal with a lot of restructuring and Heavenly bureaucracy, and I dunno, but my idea of "happily ever after" hasn't ever really involved a bunch of red tape. ;-)
It's interesting how "The End" seemed to change things...but for me ultimately didn't really change anything at all. (I'm fascinated by what you say about the reaction to your story title--was that a really recent comment or one you got right after 5x04 aired?) I know Castiel is miserable and fucked up in that episode, and he seems to (in part) blame it on his humanity ("I used to belong to a much better club," etc.), but I really do think that had much more to do with everything else--Dean being emotionally unavailable and THE WORLD ENDING and all of that. I almost see it as the exception that proves the rule.
It's also interesting that you bring up the issue of what happens to Castiel's soul after everything...is it horrible that I've barely thought about it? I mean, souls are obviously very real in SPN, but 1) I guess I am, as stated above, much more invested in what happens in this life, and 2) if God deserves even a tenth of Castiel's faith, he wouldn't snuff out or punish a Cas who falls and loves and lives well and dies. GOOD THINGS DO HAPPEN, dammit!
But, um, yes. I can clearly be wordy about this too. I guess even though my feelings remain the same (and the same as/similar to yours), I feel kind of narrow-minded for not seeing another way for him--I don't want to be exclusionary. It would be interesting to see if I could be convinced of a non-falling happy ending that doesn't seem contrived or painfully bittersweet. But I can't figure out what that would be.
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Date: 2010-02-03 03:52 am (UTC)Your two happy ending scenarios are pretty much the same as mine have always been, although I think lately I've swung pretty resolutely toward No. 1. I think a lot of my problems with the "happy in Heaven" scenario are the same as yours, combined perhaps with a healthy dose of Dean's own skepticism. Mystically, metaphysically together forever doesn't actually sound that great to me somehow? Maybe I'm too narrow-minded, too rooted in the physical, but SO'S DEAN, and that shall be my excuse.
Also, option 2 would seem to require Castiel having to deal with a lot of restructuring and Heavenly bureaucracy, and I dunno, but my idea of "happily ever after" hasn't ever really involved a bunch of red tape. ;-)
It's interesting how "The End" seemed to change things...but for me ultimately didn't really change anything at all. (I'm fascinated by what you say about the reaction to your story title--was that a really recent comment or one you got right after 5x04 aired?) I know Castiel is miserable and fucked up in that episode, and he seems to (in part) blame it on his humanity ("I used to belong to a much better club," etc.), but I really do think that had much more to do with everything else--Dean being emotionally unavailable and THE WORLD ENDING and all of that. I almost see it as the exception that proves the rule.
It's also interesting that you bring up the issue of what happens to Castiel's soul after everything...is it horrible that I've barely thought about it? I mean, souls are obviously very real in SPN, but 1) I guess I am, as stated above, much more invested in what happens in this life, and 2) if God deserves even a tenth of Castiel's faith, he wouldn't snuff out or punish a Cas who falls and loves and lives well and dies. GOOD THINGS DO HAPPEN, dammit!
But, um, yes. I can clearly be wordy about this too. I guess even though my feelings remain the same (and the same as/similar to yours), I feel kind of narrow-minded for not seeing another way for him--I don't want to be exclusionary. It would be interesting to see if I could be convinced of a non-falling happy ending that doesn't seem contrived or painfully bittersweet. But I can't figure out what that would be.