The female word

[trinityofone]

More evidence that I am too geeky for my job, in a conversation from yesterday:

BossMan: (assembles his Associate Editors, Trin and Other Associate Editor) Do either of you like Lord of the Rings?
OAE: I haven't really seen it.
Trin: The books or the movies? I mean, not really.
BossMan: But are you familiar with them?
OAE: No.
Trin: Kind of? I mean, I'm not like an expert or anything...
BossMan: Do you remember David Wenham?
OAE: Who?
Trin: Oh, Faramir.
BossMan & OAE: (blink)
Trin: (hates herself)
BossMan: Okay, Trin, I want you to interview him on Thursday, and tomorrow there's a screening of 300 that you can go to.
Trin: Okay...Can I bring a friend?
BossMan: No, we're going to go together. It's in Burbank.
Trin: (Internally: Fuuuuuuuuuck!) Sure.

So I have to spend several hours in a car with my boss tonight, and the stupid screening doesn't even have the courtesy to be during work, it's after, so I'm going to miss House and Veronica Mars, and did I mention SEVERAL HOURS STUCK IN A CAR WITH MY BOSS?

Also, I can't get the new SGA to download and I hate everything.

TOTALLY UNRELATED: I'm trying to figure out if men say "Yes." I mean, regularly. I've been thinking a lot about Molly Bloom's soliloquy from the end of Ulysses, and Joyce's quote about "Yes" being "the female word." Leaving aside his rather belief that it signifies "acquiescence and the end of all resistance" (Yick—and just for the record, I think it could just as easily be an empowering statement, a statement of choosing), I'm honestly wondering if it's a word that women use more than men. (I'm not saying that's what Joyce was saying; that's just what I'm wondering.) Will you all spy on the men in your lives today? See if they say "Yes"? Actually "Yes," I think, not "Yeah," "Okay," or "Sure." Furthermore, do you say "Yes"? Not that it'll be hard to judge, now that I've made you all self-conscious or anything.

[To the few men on my flist: please share your thoughts too! That would be very interesting!]

I'll admit, I'm especially curious about this in regards to sex (how could I not be? Molly is all about sex). So much smutfic, my own definitely and so many others', has characters—guys—murmuring their litany of yeses; and I've always thought it incredibly sexy, but I'm wondering if it's at all accurate. (My limited experience says: No. How perversely appropriate.)

Annnnd...I really shouldn't be thinking about this; I'm supposed to be writing an article about the history of Cartier. But in transcribing the interview I did with the company's president, I spent a great deal of time listening to a Frenchman talk about love; forgive me if I'm a little distracted.

Comments

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, there's plenty of interesting stuff to know about Wenham, and I'm actually looking forward to the interview. It's more the Stuck! In! The car! Going! To! Burbank! part that's freaking me out. (Fucking Burbank?)

[summertea.livejournal.com]

You can always pretend to be Very Bad In A Car and Must Sleep The Entire Time Or Else Will Be Violently Sick?

;x

[wychwood]

brown_betty has been every now and then talking about Frank Miller and how he's not really as feminist about women as he seems at first glance.

AHAHAHAHAHahahahahaAHAHAHAHAHAhahahah*dies*

Um, yeah. Do people actually claim that Miller is feminist? Are these people who have ever read any actual Miller? Because based on my exposure so far, I kind of think that Shortpacked has a point...

[wychwood]

Ah, ok, I suppose I could see that.

...it's just. Frank Miller, you know? He's usually Exhibit No. 1 of Misogyny in Comics.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Why am I now picturing your boss as J. Jonah Jameson?

[turtlespeaks.livejournal.com]

**HUGS**

Sorry about the boss. Uuuh, if it makes you feel any better, House is on again next week I think, so only VM on tonight.

UUuh, bring a book maybe?

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Oh, does House not start up again until next week? Well, that's good news, anyway!

UUuh, bring a book maybe?

Oh, God, I wish I could be that rude.

BossMan: *drives*
Trin: *reads book, ignores him utterly*

[slodwick.livejournal.com]

No, House is new tonight. :\

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Crap.

Hey, you know what would make the car trip tonight better? A Vicodin high.

[turtlespeaks.livejournal.com]

D: Oh. . . . uuh, I just found out it does air tonight.

D: D: D:

*GIVES YOU VIRTUAL CHOCOLATE AND CANDY*

Sorry!!

*also gives you hammer with which to smash the boss man*

[wychwood]

OK, trapped with your boss is bad, but! David Wenham! He seems pretty cool. And 300 is supposed to be visually gorgeous (like you'd expect from Miller) if misogynistic and homophobic (...like you'd expect from Miller). So, uh, it's not all bad?

On the "yes" thing - well, firstly Joyce is clearly talking total rubbish, because how is "yes" automatically submissive? Choice is good, man! Secondly, I do say "yes", but I suspect I say "yeah" or "ok" or "yep" more often. Thirdly, my dad certainly says "yes", and I know my brothers do, as well. I can't talk about relative frequencies, though. (Speaking of which, did you read the recent stuff that was going around about relative amounts of talking done by men and/or women, and the extent to which it's actually perception?)

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

From everything I've seen/heard David Wenham is lovely. So why can't I be trapped in a car with HIM?

how is "yes" automatically submissive? Choice is good, man!

I think (and I'll admit I've read the absolute minimum on this) that he's thinking of it in a purely sexual way, and in such a way that women can submit to men but not the other way around, because women are the receivers, as it were. I do not agree with this. (Duh!) But I think it's actually a pretty commonly held perception. (Think about the different ways women and men discuss losing their virginity: women like it's something precious they're giving up; men like it's something they're desperate to get rid of.)

All this is very interesting to me.

Speaking of which, did you read the recent stuff that was going around about relative amounts of talking done by men and/or women, and the extent to which it's actually perception?

No, but it sounds interesting, too!

[slodwick.livejournal.com]

Eeeee!! 300! I am ridiculously excited for that film; it looks STUNNING.

In related(ish) news, that weird internet biorhythm matching thing told me that I was a near-perfect match for David Wenham. I was not sad.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I wish I could be more excited about 300. Just...I hated Sin City SO MUCH. So I dunno. I'm sure it will be very pretty to look at, at least.

*starts plotting ways to convince David Wenham he should look slodwick up*

[slodwick.livejournal.com]

Aww... yeah. I guess hating SC wouldn't make you all that excited for 300. Um. Maybe someone you really like will be there, too?


(Also: ha!)

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

In Burbank?

(Sorry, as someone from West L.A., I'm contractually obligated to mock the Valley as much as possible.)

[amalthia]

there is a bright side, you get to interview David Wenham!!!! um okay maybe it's just me but I really loved him in Two Towers and Return of the King.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

No, you're right: he was utterly lovely in those. I shall try to concentrate on that when I'm stuck on the freeway, trying to make smalltalk with the human wall.

[springwoof.livejournal.com]

yes, but Faramir (or rather, David)

and it's not you who comes off geeky in that transcript of the discussion, but rather your boss and co-worker who come off as ignorant and un-cool...

did I mention SEVERAL HOURS STUCK IN A CAR WITH MY BOSS
umm, it could be worse? *Koff*17 hours stuck on a plane with my boss*Koff* (in coach)

that's why it's work--stuff they have to PAY you to do, 'cause no way you'd do it voluntarily...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

it's not you who comes off geeky in that transcript of the discussion, but rather your boss and co-worker who come off as ignorant and un-cool...

If only the rest of the world saw life through fandom's eyes!

17 hours stuck on a plane with my boss

Yeah, that's pretty bad. Although...at least you could read and stuff, I assume; nobody (sane) expects you to focus on them for 17 hours. In a car, when he's driving, it'd be pretty rude for me to ignore him.

stuff they have to PAY you to do, 'cause no way you'd do it voluntarily...

Yeah, but this is overtime, and I don't get paid for that. Sigh.

[springwoof.livejournal.com]

nobody (sane) expects you to focus on them for 17 hours

::smiles benevolently at Trin's expectations of sanity in the working world...::

this is overtime, and I don't get paid for that

yeah, they never tell you that "salaried"="lots of unpaid overtime"

[toft-froggy.livejournal.com]

If it's any consolation, David Wenham is hot, looks a little like JF only blonde, and seems very nice and funny, from interviews I've read before? He was in a film with Steve Irwin!

Re: 'yes' - I think this is probably different from region to region, rather than by gender. I say, 'yup', 'yeah', 'mm hmm', and if I'm impatient and want to move on, 'yeahyeah', which is my verbal equivalent of the Rodney McKay Handwave (tm). Sometimes I say 'sure' or 'okay', but I usually couple both of those with a 'yeah'. I actually rarely say 'yes', unless I'm asked a direct question by someone in authority.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I actually have a photo here of David Wenham in which he looks SCARILY like Callum Keith Rennie. Like the same smile and everything. Spooky! (Though also hot.)

Hmm. Yeah, I see your point about regionalism. Maybe it is info about a more symbolic "Yes" I'm looking for? Although I can't stop thinking about all those yeses in fanfic sex scenes: "Yes, yes, oh, yes" which is so Molly Bloom, and...

...And maybe I'm just making connections in my mixed up head between things that aren't really connected at all. It is all to avoid writing about pastry! (Another assignment I have yet to do.)

[toft-froggy.livejournal.com]

I've never read any Joyce. I probably should, but the more I hear about him, the more I'm put off... anyway, on a purely fanfic basis, I think 'Yes! Yes!' is crap dialogue. a) Someone at the height of ecstasy is not able to formulate consonants. That is why sex noises are all vowels. So it does not make sense that they would take the trouble to articulate that 's'. b) As I said, I just don't think anyone says 'yes' anyway except in a fairly formal setting, so why on earth would you say it during sex? It just sounds really awkward to me.

As for the symbolic value of 'yes', now I think about it, I suppose 'yes' seems more committal and to me than 'yeah'. 'Yeah' can be tossed off, it's a general affirmation/positive response, it's not something you think about. But if someone says, "Do you swear to tell the truth?" or "Will you marry me?" you say, "Yes." Yes is articulate, it takes more effort to say, it's important. That's how I perceive of it in written dialogue, anyway, which is the only time I would actually think about things like this. But when I'm writing dialogue, I always run through the words in my head and check I can hear the actual actors/actresses saying them, and that it sounds right, and my rule still holds, as far as I can see.

Mmm, pastry. Remember that fic someone wrote (it wasn't you, was it?) where John and Rodney were gingerbread men and had sex? Or... something? And there was melting sugar and eroticized jelly buttons? There you go. That'll help you through.

[siria]

And this is why you should just go with the standard Irish opinion of James Joyce: "Wanker." *g*

Also, I vote that on Thursday, you should just pretend you're on a road trip with John and Rodney. Lord only knows why they would be going to Burbank, but, uh, pretend? You're good at that sort of thing.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

But he's such an interesting wanker! I mean, I may not agree with what he has to say, but it's all very thought-provoking and fascinating!

Lord only knows why they would be going to Burbank

New form of torture invented by the Wraith? The Genii? The Ori?

Ori, probably. There's something very "Evil mystical Disney" about them.

[summertea.livejournal.com]

Re: guys saying "yes"

I think back to all my friends, and within the ... genre of people that you come across at my college, as a general rule, people use "Yeah" much more, and the distribution is even amongst the men and women. Talking with my boss, she says her husband uses "yes" more than she does, and she believes it's more to do with upbringing and educational background as opposed to gender.

[thekynicist.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what context you mean in terms of "yes"--if you're referring to "yes" as in during sex, then I can safely say, as one of the bepeniled and everything, then no, I don't, but I certainly can't claim that for all guys everywhere. And in all other fields of life, I generally have huge problems saying no, but once again, I don't think I can speak for all guys there. And I'd say that I'm far more likely to say "yeah" than "yes", if only for my accent.

Yes

[springwoof.livejournal.com]

hmm...

after reading the other comments:
if you're talking generally, then I'm not sure. . .
if you mean in the context of sex, my, ah, experience, suggests that men are more likely to say some variation of "yeah, oh yeah" followed by the fervent calling-upon their Deity of choice.

[th-esaurus.livejournal.com]

Random: Men never seem to say 'thank you' either. I notice this as someone who travels by bus almost every day. When women thank the driver, it's always 'thank you'; when men do, it's always 'thanks' or 'cheers'.

[minotaurs.livejournal.com]

Hmm, thinking about it, I say "yes" all the time. For one thing, everytime someone calls my name (which happens a lot at work) I answer "Yes?".

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

DUDE! You get to interview David Wenham!!! *flails* I loved him in Seachange!

OK so stuck in a car with the boss-man sucks though. I totally sympathise, but David Wenham!

[introductory.livejournal.com]

A guy in my microeconomics class says "yes" quite a lot, especially in response to questions that aren't yes-or-no questions.

He also said "transmorgrify" today, so he's a little weird.

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Whoa, David Wenham! He was great in Dust (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0243232/), a postmodern-ish western seen by exactly 8 people worldwide. His character Luke has this scene in which the voiceover describes how he decided to hit the road and packed only the Gospel According to Luke - and then the camera pans over the handle of his gun with "Gospel According to Luke" engraved on it. *happy sigh*

[spankys.livejournal.com]

My three-year-old nephew says yes a lot. I noticed it because it's not something you expect from someone his age "yes." I expected a "yeah." I don't know if it's because he's male, or three.

BTW, I just asked my husband a question and he said "yes."

[sonofzeal.livejournal.com]

For my part, I rarely say "yes" except in jubilation or triumph. Usually "yeah" conveys the affirmative for me.

[morebliss.livejournal.com]

Have checked in my own work environment, and no 'Yes' male comments to be found. But also no female ones either. Wonder if it's a journalistic thing (I work for a daily paper)? Will continue observement at home - two male flatmates. It's an interesting study!

Also, David Wenham (or Daisy as he's known to his friends or anyone who's listened to the cast commentaries of Two Towers)!!! So jealous. I really do hope that his darlingness makes up for the journey!

[cad27.livejournal.com]

Am boy! Say Yes, but only in more formal situations. Blame penis.

[thefirstnet.livejournal.com]

Guys don't say "yes" very often at all...but neither do I. Actually, it doesn't seem like anyone does anymore.

[jcalanthe]

I've lived as a woman & as a man, and I can't say that testosterone made me use Yes less often (or the resultant societal expectation). I'm a pretty casual guy, so I don't think I use Yes all that often, more yea, ok, that sort of thing. As a kid in the US South, I was instructed to use Yes not the variants, so there was a time when at least around adults I was more careful, and today in more professional situations that comes back to me somewhat, but I don't at all think of it as gender-related. I read this on a day I was working at home, so not a lot of data points, but I'm sure I'll pay attention the next time I'm around people. Mostly tho, I think Joyce is full of shit on this one.

As to sex, what springs immediately to mind is Meg Ryan's "orgasm" in When Harry Met Sally. I don't tend towards the very verbal myself, though the thought of managing to eek out Yeses sounds so affirming I'll probably try it. :)