SGA: Misbegotten thoughts and OH NOES
Jul. 22nd, 2006 10:23 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
trinityofoneAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Okay, I just had to get that out of my system. This episode freaked me, man. And I know that on some level it was supposed to, but this much? We'll see where they take it.
Anyway. Poor Michael. Giving him "the cure" again without his approval was so, SO not cool. I mean, I recognize that they couldn't just let him out into the world—you can't let a serial killer go free, or perhaps more accurately, you can't release a great white shark into an ocean of seals and expect everything to be peachy. Michael was going to need to eat, and that was going to be a problem if he didn't decide, on his own, to take the retrovirus. So what they should have done was have somebody try to persuade him. I betcha Teyla could have done it. But you don't, DON'T do something like that to one of your allies, ESPECIALLY when the cure is impermanent and you're poised and ready with a nuclear bomb. That's just wrong.
Also, my Michael fic is jossed all to hell now, fuckity.
John really freaked me out in this episode. He was in full-on robot mode, and it was SCARY. When we saw him on the planet and on the hive ship, he really was machine-like, and even when he got worked up talking to Woolsey (just imagine how he would be if he were forced to have a session with Heightmeyer) he just seemed...it was really weird, okay? I mean, Elizabeth seemed less stiff and more companionable in that scene, but it was like she was flirting with a brick wall. (For the record, I liked her a lot in that scene, and I don't mean flirting in a bad way—just the kind of teasing everybody does with members of the opposite (or same, depending) sex. She seemed relaxed and friendly; John's lack of reaction was...did I mention weird?)
I know that John internalizes more than pretty much everyone else on the show, but man: he is either really, REALLY conflicted right now, and is burying it; or he's not conflicted at all, Mr. Replicant Man, and either way it freaks me out.
(BTW, I loved the Blade Runner reference in SG-1 when Vala was preparing for her psych exam. It was a great joke, but the SGA episode made it seem like NOT A COINCIDENCE, YIKES!)
I liked Ronon a lot in this, just because he seemed steady and consistent, and for whatever reason, that's comforting. You don't get the impression that, like Carson, he used to have empathy and now has less. And jeeze, Carson! If you don't like what's going on, speak up for yourself! Also, what exactly did Michael do to him? Did he get Carson to spill about the bomb with just the threat of torture, or was something actually done? Way to be frustratingly vague, show.
I also liked, as always, that Rodney was the dissenting moral voice, because it's a role he always looks so uncomfortable in—he never thought that he'd be the one in this position, being (or at least attempting to be) a better person than those around him. Not that it really matters, because he always caves to the others (to JOHN). God, if they really were sleeping together, there would be so much tension right now. It would not be good: I imagine John would be desperately trying to feel something when he was with Rodney, but Rodney would be distant and withdrawn, and they wouldn't talk to each other, they'd just keep going, feeling miserable, or slowly drift apart... I want to write this story, but not until someone tells me how to give it a happy ending.
Speaking of endings...WTF, Woolsey? What did you see that could POSSIBLY have convinced you that Elizabeth was making good leadership decisions in this episode? I'm not saying that I want her replaced; I'm saying that TPTB are clearly OUT OF THEIR MINDS if they think this is good leadership. To me, it looked like Woolsey saw a lot of evidence of poor decisions and good people in way over their heads and digging themselves deeper, and then decided to IGNORE all of that because he just likes Elizabeth, darn it! And we're supposed to think this is a good thing? ARE WE? Please tell me, because I am clearly confused.
Which brings me to one last, amusing thing: when Woolsey came out on the balcony to talk to Caldwell, he was eating an orange. How fucked up is it that I immediately thought, "Orange of EVOL, OH NOES!" Because Rodney is allergic, citrus has come to have a symbolic meaning of corruption and nastiness. (Never mind that I just ate an orange this morning for breakfast.)
And one last question: is anyone else confused about how the SGA/SG-1 timelines are lining up? When did Woolsey go to Atlantis, for example, and when did he mess with Vala's head? Was Elizabeth still at the SGC when some of that Vala stuff was going on? I'm confused!
Okay, I just had to get that out of my system. This episode freaked me, man. And I know that on some level it was supposed to, but this much? We'll see where they take it.
Anyway. Poor Michael. Giving him "the cure" again without his approval was so, SO not cool. I mean, I recognize that they couldn't just let him out into the world—you can't let a serial killer go free, or perhaps more accurately, you can't release a great white shark into an ocean of seals and expect everything to be peachy. Michael was going to need to eat, and that was going to be a problem if he didn't decide, on his own, to take the retrovirus. So what they should have done was have somebody try to persuade him. I betcha Teyla could have done it. But you don't, DON'T do something like that to one of your allies, ESPECIALLY when the cure is impermanent and you're poised and ready with a nuclear bomb. That's just wrong.
Also, my Michael fic is jossed all to hell now, fuckity.
John really freaked me out in this episode. He was in full-on robot mode, and it was SCARY. When we saw him on the planet and on the hive ship, he really was machine-like, and even when he got worked up talking to Woolsey (just imagine how he would be if he were forced to have a session with Heightmeyer) he just seemed...it was really weird, okay? I mean, Elizabeth seemed less stiff and more companionable in that scene, but it was like she was flirting with a brick wall. (For the record, I liked her a lot in that scene, and I don't mean flirting in a bad way—just the kind of teasing everybody does with members of the opposite (or same, depending) sex. She seemed relaxed and friendly; John's lack of reaction was...did I mention weird?)
I know that John internalizes more than pretty much everyone else on the show, but man: he is either really, REALLY conflicted right now, and is burying it; or he's not conflicted at all, Mr. Replicant Man, and either way it freaks me out.
(BTW, I loved the Blade Runner reference in SG-1 when Vala was preparing for her psych exam. It was a great joke, but the SGA episode made it seem like NOT A COINCIDENCE, YIKES!)
I liked Ronon a lot in this, just because he seemed steady and consistent, and for whatever reason, that's comforting. You don't get the impression that, like Carson, he used to have empathy and now has less. And jeeze, Carson! If you don't like what's going on, speak up for yourself! Also, what exactly did Michael do to him? Did he get Carson to spill about the bomb with just the threat of torture, or was something actually done? Way to be frustratingly vague, show.
I also liked, as always, that Rodney was the dissenting moral voice, because it's a role he always looks so uncomfortable in—he never thought that he'd be the one in this position, being (or at least attempting to be) a better person than those around him. Not that it really matters, because he always caves to the others (to JOHN). God, if they really were sleeping together, there would be so much tension right now. It would not be good: I imagine John would be desperately trying to feel something when he was with Rodney, but Rodney would be distant and withdrawn, and they wouldn't talk to each other, they'd just keep going, feeling miserable, or slowly drift apart... I want to write this story, but not until someone tells me how to give it a happy ending.
Speaking of endings...WTF, Woolsey? What did you see that could POSSIBLY have convinced you that Elizabeth was making good leadership decisions in this episode? I'm not saying that I want her replaced; I'm saying that TPTB are clearly OUT OF THEIR MINDS if they think this is good leadership. To me, it looked like Woolsey saw a lot of evidence of poor decisions and good people in way over their heads and digging themselves deeper, and then decided to IGNORE all of that because he just likes Elizabeth, darn it! And we're supposed to think this is a good thing? ARE WE? Please tell me, because I am clearly confused.
Which brings me to one last, amusing thing: when Woolsey came out on the balcony to talk to Caldwell, he was eating an orange. How fucked up is it that I immediately thought, "Orange of EVOL, OH NOES!" Because Rodney is allergic, citrus has come to have a symbolic meaning of corruption and nastiness. (Never mind that I just ate an orange this morning for breakfast.)
And one last question: is anyone else confused about how the SGA/SG-1 timelines are lining up? When did Woolsey go to Atlantis, for example, and when did he mess with Vala's head? Was Elizabeth still at the SGC when some of that Vala stuff was going on? I'm confused!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 05:32 pm (UTC)The timelines are so whacked and I hate it. Hello, when you have crossovers, you talk. It's not like SG1 doesn't know that Elizabeth was there because SGA used their set and actors. Work together! Especially since SG1 mentioned Atlantis, but not running it by Elizabeth before she left their base. And with a really big crossover coming, you'd think they'd have been talking already anyway to sync things up. Bah to them.
I haven't liked John in this entire Wraith/human arc. He really, really bothers me. The flirting scene with him and Elizabeth was so weird and forced and the whole scene didn't feel necessary. It's gotten to the point where the only scenes I can like him in are the ones where he interacts with Rodney.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 05:33 pm (UTC)I'd really like some clarification on the timelines too.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 05:35 pm (UTC)I think he used the same Wraith mind whammy that he used on Teyla-- they did the Echoey Voice Sound Effect thing when he was leaning over Carson there at the end.
What I want to know is, how the hell does Michael know how to defuse a nuclear bomb?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 05:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 05:41 pm (UTC)I wondered how Michael knew how to disarm the bomb.
Rodney is just so freakin' adorable, that smile in the conference room. He knew that Hive ship was basically useless and Shep's order to fire, how he almost hesitated and then did it..yeah, it may lead to some mixed feelings later..but THEY ESCAPED, so there had to be some rush of survival there *happy ending* *smile*
And Woolsey, the only thing was that he was all willing to get rid of her and then at the end he was going to lie to help her stay, kind of made no sense with that.
And the timelines, next week it may get a little worse..the crossovers and such.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 05:51 pm (UTC)is anyone else confused about how the SGA/SG-1 timelines are lining up?
Totally confused. Unless there are Woolsey clones running around, that man is doing double time. The only thing I can guess is that the SG-1 episode was meant to happen after he got back from Atlantis (even though it was aired before he even went to Atlantis). Either that or it was supposed to happen before or during No Man's Land, but the timing was bugging me as well (of course, I watched Atlantis first, so it really seemed off).
John really freaked me out in this episode. He was in full-on robot mode, and it was SCARY.
I was taking John's behavior as utter and complete exhaustion beyond the point of being able to respond correctly to anything (witness his confusion at the end when Caldwell asked him where he was and it took him several seconds to realize his jumper was cloaked).
he is either really, REALLY conflicted right now, and is burying it; or he's not conflicted at all,
My thought was that he is very seriously conflicted. I don't think he agreed with Elizabeth about the retrovirus in the beginning and now things have gotten out of control. He doesn't want to betray her and so he's doing the best he can to deal with the situation, both the human-form Wraith and the investigation by Woolsey, but he certainly didn't look happy about any of it to me. We probably won't ever see his fallout because TPTB like the bottle eps, but I think it's definitely brewing in him.
Speaking of endings...WTF, Woolsey?
Woolsey's really between a rock and a hard place here. The IOA is freaking out but they really don't want a military leadership of Atlantis. Woolsey has to acknowledge that a lot of f*&ked up stuff has gone on here, but find some way of reconciling things. I think he's got a lot more in his head than he's saying. The conversation with Caldwell was interesting, for one thing, and I wonder if we'll see more pushing for Caldwell to take over at some point.
To me, it looked like Woolsey saw a lot of evidence of poor decisions and good people in way over their heads and digging themselves deeper,
That's an excellent description of what's going on with the Atlantis people right now, pretty much all of them. I think for the most part, Elizabeth has been a good leader, but she really messed up with this Wraith retrovirus and now, trying to clean that mess up, she can't see the forest for the trees. However, provided the Wraith from that anonymous hive ship didn't get too much information about Atlantis (and isn't that a nice, optimistic thought) they may have muddled their way to a resolution. If Elizabeth has learned enough from the mess, they'll stop playing God and pretend the retrovirus never existed (but somehow I have very little faith in that).
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 05:52 pm (UTC)Am about to voice an unpopular opinion, heads up:
I really fucking hate people jumping to Carson!Torture.
*ducks*
See, I'm thinking back to Rising and Sumner, who got the wonky Wraith Queen voice in his head and he split the big Earth secret. And he's a much tougher man than Carson (skittish Scot MD < hardened military man, sorry).
Carson obviously wasn't aged after his time with Michael, so I'm thinking Michael just did the weird psychic control thingy Wraith can do and got him to talk.
Why are we assuming he needed torture to get Carson to talk when the Rising Wraith lady got it after such little psychic pressing? *tears at hair*
Then again, this might be me hating the fanon torture cliche and the crappy H/C fics. It's entirely possible.
See, this is why the TPTB needs to give us canon info on Wraith abilities. This is really bloody annoying, all the guessing.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 05:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:08 pm (UTC)The whole Michael/Retrovirus thing disturbs me. Didn't they learn anything from the last time? I did like Woolsey's observation that John's having trouble seeing the Retroed Wraith as human, despite Carson's beliefs to the contrary. I kept getting Carson&Rodney vs Sheppard&Ronon vibes, especially on the Wraith ship at the end. John's behavior is freaky for him, but perhaps not that unusual given the circumstances. We just don't see this serious, military mindset side of his very often.
I think Woolsey's been more on Elizabeth's side from the beginning and the people he represents are more worried about finding someone to blame rather than doing what would be best for Atlantis. They couldn't have cared less how Elizabeth was running things until the Wraith were heading towards them.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:11 pm (UTC)omfg betrayal noes!!!!!!
Oddly, I find Cadman/Michael about as plausible as Cadman/Carson, so there you are.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:12 pm (UTC)I actually liked the flirting scene, because it showed Elizabeth behaving like a normal person (flirting is, IMO, normal—I don't think she was by any means trying to get John to ravish her across the desk or anything) and John being a WALL. There was absolutely no lightness to him at all.
And I'm not even seeing much of it in his scenes with Rodney, to be honest. Though maybe I need to watch it again. I like the idea that Rodney/Hewlett brings that out, and there was definitely some evidence of that in this episode. The joke about being hungry was the warmest moment in the whole show, and I almost died at the affectionate looks everyone exchanged. Rodney may drive them crazy, but they love him!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:13 pm (UTC)I'm curious if Carson remembers telling Michael about the bomb, because he didn't say anything after they rescued him to warn Sheppard and the others, although I'm a little fuzzy on how much he was aware of what they were attempting at that point.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:17 pm (UTC)The timeline wonk gives me a headache. I wonder if it's worth it to hope that they'll clarify next week?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:23 pm (UTC)I wondered how Michael knew how to disarm the bomb.
See
yeah, it may lead to some mixed feelings later
I'm just worried that repeated instances of that type could breed resentment. Luckily, Rodney is not the type to a hold a grudge, but...
The Jossverse showed that it's not impossible to do crossovers that make sense with both timelines. Get with it, Stargateverse!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:25 pm (UTC)If Carson needs comfort for anything, it's for his poor, stomped on morals!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:30 pm (UTC)Hide the awesome secondary characters, then. A depressed Gero is a murderous Gero.(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:43 pm (UTC)I was taking John's behavior as utter and complete exhaustion beyond the point of being able to respond correctly to anything (witness his confusion at the end when Caldwell asked him where he was and it took him several seconds to realize his jumper was cloaked).
Oh, thank you. I really like that theory, especially with the example you provide. I mean, it doesn't excuse him, but it makes the whole thing seem a lot more human.
You're right that we're probably never going to see a whole lot of fallout on screen, so I really hope that people write fic!
I understand that Woolsey is in a tough position, and I'm not faulting him so much as wondering what TPTB are intending us to get from the conclusion of the ep. What was there message, if any? I'm confused.
If Elizabeth has learned enough from the mess, they'll stop playing God and pretend the retrovirus never existed (but somehow I have very little faith in that).
What I'm wondering is: what's the next we're going to hear of Michael? I'm assuming that he's still alive. Where is that story going, and what does that mean: for him, for the Wraith, for all of Atlantis? It's not something that can just be swept under the rug.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:51 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 06:57 pm (UTC)Didn't they learn anything from the last time?
In a word? No.
I also agree with what you said about Woolsey, and the IOA in general. This whole situation is VERY fucked up. I have a pathetic desire for some light comedy now.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 07:44 pm (UTC)I'm here by way of a friend's page of a friend's page, and thought I would put in my 2 cent's worth regarding the timelines. Hope you don't mind.
The way I watched it (albeit not nearly as closely as the rest of the people here, because I get easily sidetracked), Atlantis happened immediately following SG1, and then there was a time break of approx. 1 week during Atlantis.
If I'm right, then it went something like this *apologizes for mistakes and feel free to correct me, throw things at me, whatever*:
~All the stuff with Woolsey and Vala at the SGC happened during SG1. I assume Weir was somewhere on the base, just existing off camera.
~Later that day (or maybe the next day, or week, they weren't very clear on anything), following the 'end' of the SG1 ep comes the decision that Woolsey will accompany Weir to Atlantis. She mentions something about the SGC's resources being dedicated to the Ouri (sp?) threat, so they are hitching a ride with the Asgard, and the trip will take a couple weeks less than usual. If I remember correctly from previous eps, the trip normally took about 3 weeks, which means their ETA for this trip should be about a week.
~Then, I believe, came the scene with Michael being changed back human again (and yes, I too was thinking "Well, this can't end well!").
~I might be forgetting a couple scenes, but around here is where I think the time break happened, because one of the very next scenes (I think, someone let me know if I'm way off) showed the 'colony' of wraith/humans already established on some planet with Carson there and already having trained some of them, and everyone talking like they'd been there awhile. Soon after came scene's showing Weir and Woolsey on Atlantis, which means some time had to have passed. I'm going with the one week thought because it should have at least taken them that long to get there. Woolsey is also asked how he's "settling in", which means they hadn't been there for long.
All in all, not the best way they could have handled timelines.
As to the Woolsey ending scene, he has made it clear (in SG1 at least) that the veiws of his superiors are not necessarily his own. Although, there wasn't much in this ep to make anyone look like they were making good leadership decisions.
I hope this post makes sense to someone who's not me.
I'm done now. Sorry about the rambling :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 07:58 pm (UTC)I think Woolsey has something up his sleeve. He's going to want a favor in return for helping Elizabeth (though, to be fair, that might be a left over slimey feel I got from him in SG-1 earlier) and keeping her post. He kept saying "for now" and that's a pretty big foreshadowing to me. I wonder if they IOA isn't just giving her enough rope to hang herself. I'm not convinced they aren't doing it for Vala, too.
Ronon is the only sane person there. Seriously. I mean he realizes that Wraith are bad and you can't change 'em, so kill 'em. *shakes head*
Carson has been compromised. It's gonna bite them in the butt, that much was obvious when he got left there alone. Speaking of which, John...you don't a key member of staff with the crazies. You know that. Ugh, bad writing there. Though, the scene about knocking heads was great cause Woolsey creeps me out. He's like the principal from Buffy. *shudders*
Overall, the only parts of the episode I liked was Teyla using her Wraith genes (since John sure does use his Ancient ones a lot), Ronon, and the way Elizabeth was thrilled with being with her team again. Oh, and Rodney's little "I missed you too" grin after he talked about food. Which for me is proof enough food references means love for him.
And I would give up on the timeline if I were you. It'll be much better for your mental state. Just pretend the timelines are together and ignore the villian threats on both shows. Makes your life much easier. That's my plan anyway.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-22 08:36 pm (UTC)And, speaking of Woolsey on the balcony with Caldwell, how cute was Caldwell in that scene? Elizabeth needs to get in on that crush, because he's not power crazy, and it's making *me* crush on him.
And yes, it was when John didn't even respond to Elizabeth's flirting that he really started to freak me out. *shudder*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 12:48 am (UTC)That's part of the problem with the episode that I have just there. Looking at it from a shallow perspective.
I watch the show through Rodney POV mostly, he's the one I respect and love the most. And now I can't respect and even like Sheppard, so it's difficult for me as a shipper to get Rodney to a place where he could start, or even continue a relationship with Sheppard, the differences are too big.
Fortunately, it's not my super OTP, so while Rodney stays as someone I can continue to respect, I can watch the show (and ship him with Radek).
But from a purely angst POV it's a goldmine, let's look at it, a US military Colonel and a Canadian scientist with a bit of a leftist streak and probably contemptuous of the US Military, already there is a lot of philosophical, political differences to overcome, and nobody can tell me that love can conqueor all.
Those things matter in relationships, and can cause lots of negative pressure.
But on a happier note, I can get to a place in my head where Rodney can break up with Sheppard and pursue a relationship with someone else on the show without any trouble. A first.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 03:34 am (UTC)I would so love to see a McKay rant: "Okay, no more using dialing Earth without my permission or I'm sending you to your rooms without supper!*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 03:35 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 04:13 am (UTC)However fucked up you are, you're not alone - that was my first thought as well. :) Eating citrus is totally the SGA equivalent of a bad-guy goatee.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 05:13 am (UTC)I also liked, as always, that Rodney was the dissenting moral voice, because it's a role he always looks so uncomfortable in
Rodney has developed a great deal of physical courage since arriving in Pegasus, but his moral courage hasn't quite caught up -- he does speak up when he thinks they're doing something wrong, but he always ends up backing down. I'm glad he at least tries (jeez, *somebody* needs to object to blowing up what amounts to a bunch of innocent people), and it would be an interesting character arc for him to develop the ability to say "no" and stick to it.
To me, it looked like Woolsey saw a lot of evidence of poor decisions and good people in way over their heads and digging themselves deeper, and then decided to IGNORE all of that because he just likes Elizabeth, darn it! And we're supposed to think this is a good thing? ARE WE?
Yes, I'm sure we are, and a lot of people did. And I think that's what we're supposed to do, too: ignore all the bad decisions and root for the heroes because we like them.
I really kind of want Woolsey to be a Gou'ald, who's keeping Elizabeth and the rest of the Keystone Kops in power in order to gain a foothold in a new galaxy. I mean, it's not a *subtle* way to send the message that having someone lie to cover up for your shortcomings instead of being accountable is not actually a good thing, but I'd take it.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 05:30 am (UTC)Still...
CHUCK! RUN FOR THE
MAINLANDHILLS!(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 05:36 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 02:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 07:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-23 08:23 pm (UTC)LALALALA I can't hear you!!!
When I'm done with that, I think I'm going to go cry in a corner, because... Michael.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-24 03:15 am (UTC)I think it's entirely possible that Michael was setting up nasty surprises in Carson's mind to give some payback to the Atlanteans. Like, people should be on the lookout for symptoms like excitability, excess energy, and suddenly waking up with exoskeletons.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-24 07:39 am (UTC)LOL, I had the same reaction.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-24 05:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-24 05:26 pm (UTC)carson
Date: 2006-07-25 02:16 am (UTC)Well, I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.
Re: carson
Date: 2006-07-25 02:17 am (UTC)And one day I will learn to sign into LJ for these random posts.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-25 02:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-29 01:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-07-29 02:32 am (UTC)