Some notes upon rewatch

[trinityofone]

I liked it better as an episode the second time around. The pacing seemed less wonky to me, possibly because I was less jittery and I wasn't spending the first 30 minutes going, "HOW THE FUCK DID THEY GET OFF THE PLANE?" to myself. (It's funny: I actually have no problem with flying, but maybe Dean's anxiety has worn off on me, because I was not convinced by what we saw on screen that that plane would be able to land in one piece. So when it cut straight to them in the car, I was like, "They got mojo'd AGAIN?")

A few random things I noticed:

1. BECKY PUNCTUATES POORLY. WTF, girl. You're the webmistress of morethanbrothers.net! And this is what we see on your screen?

["Then I don't want] to be right." replied Sam, in a husky voice.

Dude. GET A BETA. Once you've got your periods and commas straightened out, we can talk about forming that fangirl army.

2. Lucifer loved God too much. Um. SOMEONE had a bad breakup, obviously. Clearly, all the problems this season can best be solved by some good nookie.

3. "What I do have is a GED and a give-em-hell attitude." Oh, Dean, I love you so much! I meant to highlight this line the first time (along with "That looks like Cate Blanchett") but my brain had already gone away. There's no real point here beyond "I love Dean," but gosh, I love Dean. Sam's all yours, Becks. *clings*

On a more serious note, the thing I'm still most bothered by is the Dean-as-THE-vessel thing. This continues to make NO SENSE to me.

a) It still seems to me that the qualities of vesselness are more physical than spiritual. "It's in your blood," right? And I don't think you can even really make the case that a vessel's soul sustains the angel riding them in some way, because Anna was doing just fine in her empty, custom-made body.

b) So even if what made Dean special, what made him chosen, was that he was the righteous man who broke the first seal in Hell, thus necessitating his resurrection, why couldn't Michael just take him right away once he popped up? Why did he have to be made "ready"? His Deanness, all the things that make him him, don't seem to be relevant to the angels' purposes. Just his meat.

c) Which makes Zachariah's actions in "It's a Terrible Life" completely illogical. Why waste the time psyching Dean up, trying to get him strong and full of fight, when a weak Dean would be much more likely to consent to giving himself over to Michael? Don't you think the Dean at the end of "On the Head of a Pin" would be way, way more likely to sign himself over for something like that? He was so broken there, in the perfect vulnerable state, full of guilt and self-loathing. If Zachariah had come to him then and said, "There is one way you can make up for what you've done"...well, that's one, perhaps one of the only scenarios in which I can imagine him consenting.

d) Where does the oath fit into all this? Was "giv[ing himself] fully over to the service of God and his angels" not good enough? If not, then what was the point of that? Or did Cas just bumble it somehow? (Maybe on purpose?) I need to see this addressed.

I need to see all of this addressed, because at the moment I am not buying this twist at all.

Comments

[serialkarma.livejournal.com]

BECKY PUNCTUATES POORLY. WTF, girl. You're the webmistress of morethanbrothers.net! And this is what we see on your screen?

["Then I don't want] to be right." replied Sam, in a husky voice.

And yet, I feel this lends the scene that extra dollop of authenticity. clearly, Kripke has done his, um, research.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Authentic, yes. (God, I am laughing so hard over the fact that I just parodied the same "so wrong/so right" thing in A Wincest Story (http://trinityofone.livejournal.com/182190.html).) But if Becky is to be our avatar, I want her to improve herself! And that begins with good grammar. *nods sagely*

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

Why waste the time psyching Dean up, trying to get him strong and full of fight, when a weak Dean would be much more likely to consent to giving himself over to Michael?

Yeah, definitely weird continuity-wise. I'm thinking they may pull a "Lilith IS the final seal" twist and have Dean be Michael. Somehow. Because that idea actually makes more sense.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

That could be...hot.

Where is Michael, anyway? Is he just waiting around upstairs, twiddling his incorporeal thumbs? I like your idea better, that Zachariah doesn't even know where he is. "We don't have our general. That's bad." HA HA ZACH, HE'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU. I think I would like an entire season of Zachariah getting punk'd.

I am torn between wanting Dean to kick ass and stop Lucifer because he has an angelic destiny and superpowers and is awesome, and wanting Dean to kick ass and stop Lucifer because he has a GED and a give-'em-hell attitude and is awesome. Um. Can I have both?

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

Oh man, maybe they really don't know where Michael is, so they think if they get his perfect vessel to consent, Michael will hop in Dean and they'll finally find him.

[ainaria.livejournal.com]

have Dean be Michael. Somehow.

I like this! Maybe Michael fell and was born a human, Dean. And now the angels don't need his yes for an actual possesion, but for giving him back his memories.

[aesc.livejournal.com]

a) a) It still seems to me that the qualities of vesselness are more physical than spiritual. Yeah. It seems to be genetic, in the sense that Jimmy seems to have passed that capability onto Claire ("It's in her blood as it was in yours"), or else maybe it's a mutation. My "handwavy bit of speculation" ATM is that Dean was still seriously messed up from Hell--his references to having left part of himself behind in the Pit--or something had happened to prevent him from being vessel-able. Maybe the fact that he's specifically Michael's vessel sets him apart; he's like a reserved parking space so no one, not even Cas (*SIGH*) can take up residence.

b) His Deanness, all the things that make him him, don't seem to be relevant to the angels' purposes. Except that SPN has a really bizarre attitude toward the body, and where things like virtue and righteousness reside. Really, those things don't seem to be divorceable from the flesh, however frequently characters use terms like "meatsuit." You're not fully human--you don't have will or choice--if you aren't in your body. And there's the fact he has to give his consent; not even Michael can hop into him without his agreement. After his first meeting with Cas, Dean wasn't exactly swooning with gratitude and ready to do whatever Cas wanted.

c) The impression I get is that Zachariah is obviously 1) incompetent, and 2) arrogant, and 3) had an entire plan going on behind the scenes that's predicated on keeping Sam focused on killing Lilith. If Dean went kiting off to play host to Michael, that would possibly pull Sam's attention off getting some revenge.

Aside: Although, it could work... Maybe get Dean to agree, Michael him up, and then stage Dean's death to make it look like Lilith came back after the archangel incident. Sam gets PISSED. Hm. I shall consider this.

d) I like to think Cas did it on purpose XD Deals in SPN usually have to be sealed in some way; given that it's angels, I would have expected blood, or two fingers to Dean's forehead or something. (You know, like making out.) And Dean refused to go along with Zachariah in the green room, despite his promises (the green room makes a LOT more sense now, too). So clearly there's some binding that isn't sticking like it should.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

a) I guess your fanwank works. But in that case, when did he cross the line into being vessel-able again? What makes someone vessel-able?

Clearly, if Dean is reserved for Michael, Cas is gonna have to throw down to win Dean for himself. *rubs hands together in anticipation*

b) You're right that the show's attitude to the body seems screwy—or at least unclear. I'd argue that a person's self is divorceable from the flesh, though, or else how else would demonic (or angelic) possession be possible?

c) Or Michael could've grabbed Dean in 4x16, Sam could have discovered his brother possessed but been led to believe it was by a Lilith minion, and we have dead!Lilith again. There are lots of ways they could have done it. YOU SUCK, ZACHARIAH.

d) Maybe like with Lilith a deal with an angel takes more than a kiss? ;-) That could be awkward. "Dean, I can't have sex with you, because if we copulate, the deal you made with me in the salvage yard will go into effect." Oh noes!

Okay, all my legitimate thinky thoughts are now apparently gone; I should eat something and try to regrow my brain. But yes, you know I love the idea that Cas let Dean get away with sloppy oath-making on purpose. I love Castiel when he's the sneakiest angel in the garrison. *g*

[berlinghoff79.livejournal.com]

The oath was to 'God and you guys'. As far as I see it did Dean swear his allegiance to God, Cas, and whoever else is on their side.

[verito295.livejournal.com]

And that makes me think that maybe Dean is still bound to that but the 'you guys' are not exactly what Zacharia might have wanted... If Cas was effectively rescued by God and so were Sam and Dean then it must mean that God and the angels are not exactly of the same mind right now and Dean is still on God's side.

[berlinghoff79.livejournal.com]

My thought exactly.*nods*

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Right, I know—and I love that Cas let him get away with that. But even if Dean had said the oath correctly...Zachariah doesn't seem to be following up very well? I don't know. Poor planning skills, Zach.

[xmarie08.livejournal.com]

As far as It's a Terrible Life, at that point Zach was still pulling one over on Cas and the other "grunts on the ground" that the angels were trying to save the seals. So, I suspect he was just playing the part to keep Cas (and perhaps other angels) pacified.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

That seems an awfully overly-elaborate way to do that. Why step in and exert himself just for a pretense? It would only give the grunts on the ground—Castiel!—cause to question him, where before they would presumably have none.

Spock says: Zachariah, you are illogical.

[jujuberry136.livejournal.com]

You know, after this ep I was spending a LOT of time wondering where the heck Michael was (I mean seriously, won't he have tried a *little* to communicate with Dean directly, or at least through an angel he was on better terms with- aka anyone BUT Zachariah). So I've decided Michael and God are clearly off chilling on some beach and got distracted by mai thais. At some point Lucifer is going to find them and do the creepy stalker ex-boyfriend thing...

[intermezzo]

I've just watched the ep, and, after reading your posts, I have even more questions and doubts. WOE!

Anyway, one thing that really bothered me was the way Cas disappeared on Dean and Sam after they questioned him about his death. It looked to me like he was more...bothered by *how* he came back and *who* had rescued him rather than the fact he had died. Which makes me think it may not be necessarily God (and if it wasn't him, who/what was?).

I mean, when Cas implied God had saved Sam&Dean, he also seemed to imply that the Boss saved him, right? But the way he said that to Zachariah makes me think he wanted to scare Zachariah off, or at least to make him question his own behaviour. Which, you know, is all fine and dandy, BUT...why ignore the question? If God had saved him, why disappear and not tell Dean and Sam directly? Makes no sense. Cas -and even Dean, for that matter- has always had doubts about his duty and esp God, so I would've expected him to be a little bit more enthusiastic if he got proof God was still around. Unless he knows who rescued him -and it wasn't God- and for some reason he is scared/confused?

You know what? I liked Dean's fake!plan better, the one he told Bobby about. Let demons and angels fight their war, but on another planet. Kill Lucifer and even Michael, if they have to.

And now I shall go back and ponder some more. Also sorry if my English
sucks. I'm still incoherent.

PS: "The pacing seemed less wonky to me, possibly because I was less jittery and I wasn't spending the first 30 minutes going, "HOW THE FUCK DID THEY GET OFF THE PLANE?" to myself." That? Happened to me too.

[musicdiamond.livejournal.com]

a) I think that the ability to be a vessel contain a physical component (blood) but it's more of a 'necessary but not sufficient' condition (ie, there's a baseline blood protein or something you need in order to be a vessel, but not everyone with that protein can be a successful vessel). I don't think the show has done a very good job of articulating it, but my guess is that there does need to be something else in addition to the physical blood component, and whether that's spiritual or "chosen-ness" or whatever, I don't know yet.

I also think that there's probably a scale of super special vesselness, like, there are D-level vessels which can only survive being taken by the weakest angels (say, Castiel pre-resurrection), C-level vessels that can be taken by stronger angels, B-level vessels that can be taken by angels pretty high up on the hierarchy (Zachariah), and then A-level vessels that are extremely rare (Lucifer specifically stated that Nick was one of the very strong and few vessels capable of holding Lucifer). Nick and Dean might be A-level vessels--super rare human types who can survive being possessed by angelic beings as powerful as Lucifer and Michael. Or, alternatively, they might be custom built only to be able to be possessed by Lucifer or Michael--no lesser angel can successfully control them.

I am fond of the idea that maybe Dean is actually Michael, as in, Michael pulled an Anna, ripped his grace out, and was reborn as Dean Winchester with no memory of his old days. It would dovetail nicely with the character of Dean Winchester in some ways--being a soldier, obedience to family and father, self-sacrifice, and then that rebellious streak on top of it all. I think it would be fun if Zach was just bluffing and hoping that if he could convince Dean to say yes, this would somehow summon Michael for his part to play (since Michael has inexplicably gone missing and the angels haven't been able to locate him). It would make sense because usually the angel trying to inhabit the body usually is the one doing the convincing of the host (ie, Lucifer appearing to Nick in his dream, Castiel talking to Jimmy). If Mike was still in the building, why wouldn't he be the one bargaining with Dean for his body? Why wouldn't he beam down himself in a dream and say, "Yo, let me hop in for a spin"? Of course, there's still time in the season for Michael to appear in a dream or otherwise communicate with Dean, so, y'know.

d) Maybe like with Lilith a deal with an angel takes more than a kiss? ;-) That could be awkward. "Dean, I can't have sex with you, because if we copulate, the deal you made with me in the salvage yard will go into effect." Oh noes!

That comment just made me laugh. That's all. Someone needs to write a crackfic about it.

[amalthia]

What I don't get is if Lucifer had to convince someone to be his host why can't Michael do his own work convincing Dean instead of having Zachariah "helping."

[volari.livejournal.com]

I re-watched that scene again just last night (really it was to see Castiel deus ex machina (for real!) and kick ass)--Zach said that it was true, they had lost the sword. What if they had only rediscovered it in time to stow Dean in the greenroom and keep him all safe? Like, they knew Dean would have some kind of role, just not exactly what, so they wanted to cover all their bases by making sure he could--and would--still fight.