Rite of Passage
Nov. 30th, 2005 06:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
trinityofoneThere comes a time in every young fangirl's life when, should she still reside amongst the chalk-dust lecture halls and book-dust libraries of academia, she must pick up the mantle and write an academic paper about slash. And for me, brothers and sisters (mostly sisters), that time has come.
Basically what happened was this: my popular literature class had a guest lecturer, Prof. McCarthy. She was giving a talk on Poppy Z. Brite's Exquisite Corpse (which, embarrassingly, I still have not been able to find), and in doing so, she talked about serial killers in both history and literature, and provided us with some great quotes. (One of my favorites, Paul Anthony Woods on Norman Bates: "He registers in our hearts as one of the most loveable sickos of pop culture.") Then she showed us selected postings from the Yahoo!Group JeffreyDahmerClub. If you click on the link, which I do NOT recommend, you'll see some of what she showed us: people (mostly women) talking about how much they love Jeffrey Dahmer, how they feel he was just misunderstood, how hot he is--all very serious and earnest. I was, needless to say, disturbed by this. Especially because one of the first thoughts that entered my mind was: "Jesus, these people must've been on Yahoo!Groups talking about their love for a serial killer at the exact same time I, fresh-faced and 17, was there posting about my love for Spike."
...At which point I would like to take a time out and say: Fuck you, David Fury.
But ANYWAY...just then Prof. McCarthy said something about how both serial killers and their fans exhibit an "obsessive and insatiable" need for more, more, more. And then she brought up slash.
Slash readers and writers--the term was of course defined for the giggling audience, with the inevitable Kirk/Spock example and an increase in giggling--exhibit, said McCarthy, the same need for more of their chosen type of media: more story, more sexual tension, more sex. Brite, not a slash fan, has bemoaned the fact that while "real" writers will work hard to "create real, complex, multidimensional characters with lives that need no 'improvement' by the peanut gallery, all some readers really want is for [the characters] to fall into a huge rutting jizz-drenched scrum" (Fan Nine from Outer Space). Prof. McCarthy didn't specifically disagree with Brite; mostly she just drew the obvious connections between sex and violence, making, IMO, rather too big a deal about the possible violent connotations of the word "slash." I really wasn't quite sure what she was trying to say, actually; but more than that, I was disturbed that my mind had made the leap from Jeffrey Dahmer fandom to our fandom first, and without being prompted.
After the lecture, there was a question and answer period. I debated whether I should say anything--I didn't want to "out" myself to a room full of strangers, and I wasn't sure how to neutrally phrase a question, or even what I wanted to ask. Finally, I raised my hand and mumbled something about how, while I definitely saw the connection between obsessive-compulsive, insatiable behaviour and slash fandom, didn't Prof. McCarthy think it might have less to do with violence, and more to do with (here I stumbled, wanting to say--I think--love) romance novels? You know, the type little old ladies check out from the library, the type with Fabio on the cover? Prof. McCarthy conceded that this might be so. Class dismissed.
I left unsatisfied. I thought about just going home and writing a bitchy, dismissive post about how we are NOT like that. Yet I was still bothered by the fact that my brain had made the connection first. And what are we, if not obsessive and insatiable? What does that make us--serial readers? Serial writers? Why do we do what we do?
So I went to Dr. Jones' office hours and outed myself as a slasher.
The meeting began less than promisingly, as he greeted me by saying, "Aren't you the student that asked the question about Fabio?" I admitted that I was, and that yes, I am from Berkeley, and that yes (feeling quite the stereotype), I would like to talk more about the gay porn, please.
Dr. Jones said he was "fascinated by this phenomenon known as 'slash.'" I said I was quite an expert, but that the lecture that morning had made me think about why we did it--why I did it. One of our class' essay titles is "Write an essay on why you think formulaic writing is so popular"--could I, I inquired, write an essay about slash?
His response was enthusiastic. Very enthusiastic. Did I mention that I rather adore him? I do, I do.
Anyway, he introduced me to Prof. Silver, whom he called "the university's resident slash expert." Unfortunately, this is not an actual tenured position--too bad, 'cause nice as Prof. Silver was, I could totally have beaten her out for it. She really didn't know much about internet fandom at all, but she gave me a great book--Constance Penley's NASA/TREK, which I highly recommend, despite the fact that it's old and thus deals mostly with 'zines--and even better, a lot of encouragement. In return, I gave her links to some classic fandom stuff--she'd never heard of the Very Secret Diaries! *gasp*--and, when pressed, some of my own stories. (Yikes!) When I come out, I come out hard--bringing the clothes, the hangers, and the dust bunnies with me.
So now--
The short version: I now have just over a weak to write a paper about Why We Slash. I think I can pull together the more academic, sociological sources, but for the rest, I need your help. I want this paper to be different from other writings about slash and fandom: I'm not going to distance myself; rather, I'm going to get permission to write in the first person and include myself in the analysis. I don't want to be yet another judgmental outsider looking in (or down) on "this phenomenon known as slash"; I'm a part of it, I'm not going to deny it, and that gives me a unique perspective.
But I need other people's perspectives--other people's insights--too. So, fellow fandom folks: if you could take the time to answer the following questions, I would be deeply appreciative.
1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?
2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?
3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)
4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?
5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?
If you want to provide info about age, gender, sexual preference, when you entered fandom or how long you've been in it, it would be interesting and useful, but obviously, I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable. With that in mind, anyone who'd prefer to take this out of a public forum can also e-mail me at kaufmaa@tcd.ie . You can also comment anonymously, though I'd appreciate it if you could provide me with some sort of alias in case I choose to quote you.
With that in mind: unless you tell me otherwise, any quotes I pull will be attributed to your LJ username (minus the LJ distinction, of course.) So if I were quoting myself, I might say: "'I'm in it for the porn, baby!' said one writer, trinityofone. 'Porn, porn, porn--that's what the internet is for!'"* If you'd prefer to be quoted under a different name, just tell me what it is. But don't get too panicky: this paper will most likely be seen by no one other than Dr. Jones, Prof. McCarthy, Prof. Silver, and myself. And we're all very discreet. ;-)
Finally, PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD. Which is to say: the red light is on, I have multiple varieties of condoms (some are flavored!), but right now I'm all by my lonesome, so I need you to pimp, pimp, pimp. Also, if anyone knows of any communities where I might be able to rustle up some participants, that'd be fab.
So in conclusion: let me know if you have any questions, and thanks in advance!
*Actually, I read slash for the articles. 'The' is a good one; so's 'a.' ...And after that display of dorkery, we're all going to pretend this footnote doesn't exist.
Basically what happened was this: my popular literature class had a guest lecturer, Prof. McCarthy. She was giving a talk on Poppy Z. Brite's Exquisite Corpse (which, embarrassingly, I still have not been able to find), and in doing so, she talked about serial killers in both history and literature, and provided us with some great quotes. (One of my favorites, Paul Anthony Woods on Norman Bates: "He registers in our hearts as one of the most loveable sickos of pop culture.") Then she showed us selected postings from the Yahoo!Group JeffreyDahmerClub. If you click on the link, which I do NOT recommend, you'll see some of what she showed us: people (mostly women) talking about how much they love Jeffrey Dahmer, how they feel he was just misunderstood, how hot he is--all very serious and earnest. I was, needless to say, disturbed by this. Especially because one of the first thoughts that entered my mind was: "Jesus, these people must've been on Yahoo!Groups talking about their love for a serial killer at the exact same time I, fresh-faced and 17, was there posting about my love for Spike."
...At which point I would like to take a time out and say: Fuck you, David Fury.
But ANYWAY...just then Prof. McCarthy said something about how both serial killers and their fans exhibit an "obsessive and insatiable" need for more, more, more. And then she brought up slash.
Slash readers and writers--the term was of course defined for the giggling audience, with the inevitable Kirk/Spock example and an increase in giggling--exhibit, said McCarthy, the same need for more of their chosen type of media: more story, more sexual tension, more sex. Brite, not a slash fan, has bemoaned the fact that while "real" writers will work hard to "create real, complex, multidimensional characters with lives that need no 'improvement' by the peanut gallery, all some readers really want is for [the characters] to fall into a huge rutting jizz-drenched scrum" (Fan Nine from Outer Space). Prof. McCarthy didn't specifically disagree with Brite; mostly she just drew the obvious connections between sex and violence, making, IMO, rather too big a deal about the possible violent connotations of the word "slash." I really wasn't quite sure what she was trying to say, actually; but more than that, I was disturbed that my mind had made the leap from Jeffrey Dahmer fandom to our fandom first, and without being prompted.
After the lecture, there was a question and answer period. I debated whether I should say anything--I didn't want to "out" myself to a room full of strangers, and I wasn't sure how to neutrally phrase a question, or even what I wanted to ask. Finally, I raised my hand and mumbled something about how, while I definitely saw the connection between obsessive-compulsive, insatiable behaviour and slash fandom, didn't Prof. McCarthy think it might have less to do with violence, and more to do with (here I stumbled, wanting to say--I think--love) romance novels? You know, the type little old ladies check out from the library, the type with Fabio on the cover? Prof. McCarthy conceded that this might be so. Class dismissed.
I left unsatisfied. I thought about just going home and writing a bitchy, dismissive post about how we are NOT like that. Yet I was still bothered by the fact that my brain had made the connection first. And what are we, if not obsessive and insatiable? What does that make us--serial readers? Serial writers? Why do we do what we do?
So I went to Dr. Jones' office hours and outed myself as a slasher.
The meeting began less than promisingly, as he greeted me by saying, "Aren't you the student that asked the question about Fabio?" I admitted that I was, and that yes, I am from Berkeley, and that yes (feeling quite the stereotype), I would like to talk more about the gay porn, please.
Dr. Jones said he was "fascinated by this phenomenon known as 'slash.'" I said I was quite an expert, but that the lecture that morning had made me think about why we did it--why I did it. One of our class' essay titles is "Write an essay on why you think formulaic writing is so popular"--could I, I inquired, write an essay about slash?
His response was enthusiastic. Very enthusiastic. Did I mention that I rather adore him? I do, I do.
Anyway, he introduced me to Prof. Silver, whom he called "the university's resident slash expert." Unfortunately, this is not an actual tenured position--too bad, 'cause nice as Prof. Silver was, I could totally have beaten her out for it. She really didn't know much about internet fandom at all, but she gave me a great book--Constance Penley's NASA/TREK, which I highly recommend, despite the fact that it's old and thus deals mostly with 'zines--and even better, a lot of encouragement. In return, I gave her links to some classic fandom stuff--she'd never heard of the Very Secret Diaries! *gasp*--and, when pressed, some of my own stories. (Yikes!) When I come out, I come out hard--bringing the clothes, the hangers, and the dust bunnies with me.
So now--
The short version: I now have just over a weak to write a paper about Why We Slash. I think I can pull together the more academic, sociological sources, but for the rest, I need your help. I want this paper to be different from other writings about slash and fandom: I'm not going to distance myself; rather, I'm going to get permission to write in the first person and include myself in the analysis. I don't want to be yet another judgmental outsider looking in (or down) on "this phenomenon known as slash"; I'm a part of it, I'm not going to deny it, and that gives me a unique perspective.
But I need other people's perspectives--other people's insights--too. So, fellow fandom folks: if you could take the time to answer the following questions, I would be deeply appreciative.
1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?
2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?
3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)
4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?
5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?
If you want to provide info about age, gender, sexual preference, when you entered fandom or how long you've been in it, it would be interesting and useful, but obviously, I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable. With that in mind, anyone who'd prefer to take this out of a public forum can also e-mail me at kaufmaa@tcd.ie . You can also comment anonymously, though I'd appreciate it if you could provide me with some sort of alias in case I choose to quote you.
With that in mind: unless you tell me otherwise, any quotes I pull will be attributed to your LJ username (minus the LJ distinction, of course.) So if I were quoting myself, I might say: "'I'm in it for the porn, baby!' said one writer, trinityofone. 'Porn, porn, porn--that's what the internet is for!'"* If you'd prefer to be quoted under a different name, just tell me what it is. But don't get too panicky: this paper will most likely be seen by no one other than Dr. Jones, Prof. McCarthy, Prof. Silver, and myself. And we're all very discreet. ;-)
Finally, PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD. Which is to say: the red light is on, I have multiple varieties of condoms (some are flavored!), but right now I'm all by my lonesome, so I need you to pimp, pimp, pimp. Also, if anyone knows of any communities where I might be able to rustle up some participants, that'd be fab.
So in conclusion: let me know if you have any questions, and thanks in advance!
*Actually, I read slash for the articles. 'The' is a good one; so's 'a.' ...And after that display of dorkery, we're all going to pretend this footnote doesn't exist.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 08:45 pm (UTC)First of all, seriously, £5.59 on amazon.co.uk. Cheaper used, even! It's absolutely worth it; you'll either be absolutely in love with it or so horrified you're delighted (my reaction depends mostly on the day). I mean, seriously, any book that's someone going "Well, what if Jeffrey Dahmer (except from New Orleans, and fabulously wealthy, and a drug addict, because Poppy's characters are nothing if not distinct from each other) and Dennis Nilsen fell in love?" can't be all bad. Also, angry gay rantings, and more bizarre expression of Poppy's yellow fever! (No seriously, the one time I read a short story of hers and the gay Thai kid was listening to the Cure? I actually started laughing it was so clear this kid would be dead in ten pages.) And ... now I'm really regretting not bringing it back with me when I went home this past weekend, woe.
Also, for the record — and Certain Friends of mine and I have, in fact, discussed this at length — Jeffrey Dahmer? As serial killers go? Totally hot. I mean let's be honest here: Dahmer (http://www.tornadohills.com/dahmer/renamed2/dahmer811.gif). Gacy (http://www.prairieghosts.com/gacy.gif). Fish (http://killer.radom.net/~sermord/images/mordercy_FishAlbert1.jpg). Take yer pick.
... Okay, that particular descent into perversion over. Can I just mention the fact — and I'm sure I've mentioned this before; I've told
But at any rate, I think the link between serial killing and slash writing is ... tenuous, at absolute best. Yes, there's an insatiable desire for more more more, but so there is with alcoholics, so there is with fashionistas, so there is with wine conniseurs and people who watch seveteen TV shows a week and the Grateful Dead fans who are currently getting angry because the band shut down a bootleg site. So there is with the fact that I have actually handed my wallet to other people before heading into the Sanrio store. So there is with the fact that I own NSYNC lip gloss.
That someone would, in a professional, academic capacity, draw parallels between desire — and the creative expression thereof, no less — and murder ... I see where she was coming from, but that strikes me as absolutely wrong, especially talking to an (essentially) uninformed audience.
I mean, I can take that with a grain of salt — I've been reading (and occasionally writing) slash for ten years; I've curled up with serial killer stories when I'm feeling mopey; I've read a fuckload of Poppy Z Brite. I'd probably have been cracking the fuck up during that lecture.
But a group of students who had to have slash defined for them, then being told it's just like serial killing? That is 100% Not Kosher.
Also, she obviously knew nothing about X-Files fandom (or most, really, but that one sticks out in particular) if she thought this sort of thing was exclusive to those of us who like The Gay Sex; let me tell you, man, the 'shippers were at least as scary as the slashers.
So basically um: grr, argh. And good luck on your paper! And yes, I will pimp this out for you. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 09:05 pm (UTC)Not just the X-Files fandom, yo. In the Alias fandom (back when the show was actually good *sigh*) the shippers were a hell of a lot scarier than the slashers. Mainly because there were maybe a dozen slashers and kajillions of shippers who were either twelve years old or acted like it, but I think this is the case in a lot of fandoms as well. Harry Potter, for instance. (Although anyone who's lurked on discussion of fandom - for lack of a better word - politics in the HP fandom could probably argue that...)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 09:07 pm (UTC)(disclaimer: I love the books! I love the movies even! I have read extensively and written in the fandom!)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 09:11 pm (UTC)That being said, some of the best writers I've ever read were in the HP fandom -
(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 09:20 pm (UTC)I got into this with
(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 09:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 09:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 09:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 09:50 pm (UTC)Well. There probably is, what with the internet's overwhelming tendancy toward exploding. So I reckon I'll just ignore that, too.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 10:00 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 10:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 11:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-11-30 11:35 pm (UTC)And yeah, that's roughly the difference; there are probably nuances that I've forgotten because it was a whole bunch of years ago and I was like twelve, but pretty much. I would have been quite surprised actually to hear the terms, as such, were back in popular circulation, so I was just wondering.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-12-01 05:27 pm (UTC)I really do want to read it. Maybe I will ask for it for Christmas? My family once drove two hours to see The Talented Mr. Ripley after Christmas dinner; serial killers are like, a holiday tradition.
Not touching the serial killer-hotness issue, though. At least not right now. Eep!
that after Poppy decried slash, she published this
*giggle*
Yeah, y'see, everyone's writing fanfiction; Goethe's Faust and Joyce's Ulysses can be considered fanfiction, if you really want to be stringent about it. Silly pretentious lit critics; some day they'll see. *eg*
Also, supposedly Brite's comments about slash, and specifically what I quoted (which is what the lecturer quoted) are here (http://www.salient.org.nz). I haven't been able to find the relevant interview, but then, I was too lazy to look very hard.
I'd probably have been cracking the fuck up during that lecture.
I was alternating between laughing hysterically into the back of my hand, and nearly choking on my tongue.
But a group of students who had to have slash defined for them, then being told it's just like serial killing? That is 100% Not Kosher.
Yeah, that's fucked up. I think fandom needs to collectively develop a better definition, because I'm not aware of a good one right now; calling it "that Kirk/Spock thing" (or more recently, "that Harry/Draco thing") isn't winning us any favors.
she obviously knew nothing about X-Files fandom...if she thought this sort of thing was exclusive to those of us who like The Gay Sex; let me tell you, man, the 'shippers were at least as scary as the slashers.
Heh, I was an X-Files 'shipper (though I did, occasionally and guiltily, read M/K). And we were scary. THEIR LOVE WAS SO PURE, LIEK OMG!
Buffy/Angel 'shippers are still the scariest, though. *shudder*
And yes, I will pimp this out for you.
I noticed--thank you! And for your detailed response, too--excellent stuff in there. I'm going to have a really hard time sticking to my 2,000 word limit 'cause everyone's giving me so much great material!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-12-01 09:49 pm (UTC)And holy crap, you were a 'shipper? XD Good times, my friends. Good times. (Ah, the early days of fandom.)
Also, yes, you're right; fandom does need a new definition. It does. It needs one kind of a lot. Although, and fortunately
"So, you know how you and Eric aren't having sex?"
(no subject)
Date: 2005-12-02 03:26 am (UTC)PZB: Is Plastic Jesus slash fiction? I'm not particularly happy with it in retrospect, but I don't think it is quite that bad. For one thing, it doesn't contain a great deal of sex. The South Park story was just a joke, not the sort of thing I'm ever likely to repeat. While the slash culture has a kind of icky fascination for me, I can't say the fiction holds any appeal, so I can't really comment on that--or why the form is almost exclusively used by woman, for that matter, since I don't feel that I write (or do much of anything else) from a female perspective.
I did read an interesting article on slash by Adam Parfrey in Apocalypse Culture II. An author of Star Trek slash commented, "When Kirk and Spock love each other, instead of the standard bitch brought on every couple of weeks, I still have them for myself." I don't know that I see this as a particularly admirable reason to write any sort of fiction--for one thing, it seems to imply that male homosexuality is a less valid (and therefore less threatening) form of eroticism than heterosexuality--but it is an interesting perspective.
She has always struck me as a particularly bad interview subject, talking about transgendered issues and her writing in ways that the interviewers never understand or respect, making offhand remarks that piss off her fans etc. She also seems to be reinventing herself, which fans never like.
I wouldn't take anything negative she says to heart.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-12-03 07:55 pm (UTC)And I'd certainly hope the South Park story was a joke. Hot damn but was that some scary shit.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-12-01 09:09 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-12-01 09:37 pm (UTC)