Why is SGA fandom so segregated?

[trinityofone]

lavvyan! I got your package! Thank you so much, it's gorgeous. (To curious parties: it's a piece of papyrus with the Ancient Egyptian calendar on it.) Actually, the tube it came in is gorgeous, too. But I really want to try to get it framed. And this Treed Murray poster, which I keep saying I should treat myself to. (Hey, I have a new apartment and a new office to decorate here!) There has to be a cheap frame shop in existence somewhere...right?

I am incredibly, incredibly tired today. I was exhausted yesterday, and couldn't even make it through The Daily Show before I crashed. This is bad. I thought I was adjusting to my new work schedule, but I guess I'm not. Is there any way to train yourself to need less sleep?

One thing that has almost kept me energized has been the response to the SGA Bulwer-Lytton Contest. There are so many awesome and hysterical entries, it's going to be killer to choose. So I think I'll pick my--15? Is that how many entries an LJ poll allows?--my 15 or so favorites and let people vote on the Grand Prize Winner. Unless anybody has wild objections, I'll put that up tomorrow.

Like I said, the response has been incredible, and I've seen some new names (by which I mean: people I don't know, even by association, not "people who don't usually comment here"), which is always cool. But--and please correct me if I'm wrong--I still seem to be attracting mostly McKay/Sheppard people, or at least mostly slash people. Which in general makes sense, because hey, I write McKay/Sheppard, I talk about McKay/Sheppard, most of my friends are into McKay/Sheppard. As far as I'm concerned, McKay/Sheppard is for yay.

BUT. I like other pairings, too (my other fandom interest could possibly be described as McKay/women), and I think at least a little cross-pairing pollination is to be encouraged. My last fandom was BtVS/AtS, and it was wild, man. I mean, I started out a Spuffy shipper (Shut up! Their love was pure snarky and hot! At least before it became canon, anyway) but I liked the slash a lot (Buffydom was where I really grew to be comfortable with slash) and I wrote and read some of pretty much everything. It was all mixed.

Why is SGA so much more segregated? I mean, I don't think this is entirely a bad thing--I don't want my flist flooded with Sheppard/Weir stories, and I doubt the Sheppard/Weir shippers want a gazillion McKay/Sheppard stories on their friends pages, either. But is it just me, or is it extremely hard to organize activities that include all sides of fandom? Take reel_sga. The response to that has been great...but as pairings go, not very diverse. In terms of my personal reading habits, that's fine, but I had kind of hoped that there'd be more pairings represented. And maybe there still will be. That would be cool.

(Speaking of one nice bit of pairing diversity, I really loved this reel_sga entry: McKay/Ford art by deani_bean. It's the tie thing. That's awesome, and that transcends OTP-loyalty [and I say this as someone who is mockably OTPish at times]. Which is cool, no?)

Anyway, the Bulwer-Lytton thing is different, because of course it is not pairing-centric: it's mostly about mocking style and usage, although certain tropes have been fun to mock, too. It's about bad writing, but it's also about amusing and clever writing, and seeing what you can do in the space of a sentence. That's something everybody can appreciate, right?

So I guess what I'm wondering is, where are the het shippers? (Again, please correct me if they're around and I've just been too dumb to notice.) And I just don't mean, why aren't they here, responding to this--what is here is awesome, and I'm not like, demanding more people participate, omg. I just mean, I've been in this fandom for almost a year now--how have we managed not to interact at all? Of course, part of this may be me--I'm certainly not trolling john_elizabeth, because why would I want to? So I'm also not saying, "Sheppard/Weir peeps! Why aren't you over at mckay_sheppard? We've got a hot tub, come hang out!" Because seriously, why would they want to? But the fact that there's little-to-no crossover is just astonishing to me.

Maybe it's just that we have a situation that's more like X-Files fandom than Buffydom. Back in the old days, I was rabid about MSR, and I just didn't go anywhere near the slash. (Or Scully/Skinner, or whatever else there was.) I can't remember very well, but I think I was actively afraid of those unfamiliar corners of the net, and that included any of the projects "those people" may have been involved in. Of course, I think this may have had MUCH more to do with the fact that I was 14 than with my shipping preferences, but could there possibly be some connection? What I'd like to know is, do most people on the het end of fandom see even a name associated with slash and immediately go, "Avoid! Avoid! Avoid!"? Which, I hasten to say, would be totally their right. But I realize, I don't even know anyone over there that I could ask.

I'm not saying that there needs to be some sort of cross-ship dialogue, because I think those things tend to end in angry glaring at best. Possibly, just ignoring each other is the best way to avoid conflict, and I'm all for avoiding conflict. I'm just surprised there isn't some sort of neutral zone, some shaded area at the center of the Giant Venn Diagram of Fandom Life. Why do you think that is?

Comments

Re: Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying that SGA het isn't there--of course it is. (Although I do wish there were more Rodney het! *looks at the universe hopefully*) I'm saying that the het side of fandom doesn't (from what I've seen) interact with the slash side very much. And I'm wondering why there isn't more of a blending, in meta and challenge responses and the like.

Re: Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[thelana.livejournal.com]

*nods*

Then it's pretty much like everybody else has said, that people can be very sensitive to feeling that they are outnumbered somewhere, it makes them feel uncomfortable. Plus, obviously, lack of interest in pairings with characters they are less interested in or a general OTP frame of mind.

This kind of separation can take place even the smalles of corners (for example fans of Shep/Teyla seem be rather categorically dismissive of Teyla/Ronon; and even though the Teylanfan community is technically a a general community, it is run by known Shep/Teyla people, which seems enough to make Teyla/Ronon people stay away from it).

Personally, I have always been a multishipper and therefore I can say from experience that is is possible to just ignore those imaginary walls between fangroups is just just want to. And the first step is to read fics from the "other side" comment on it and hope that it will make them curious enough to check out your fic in turn. I think a core issue is respect. If you go to them and comment on a fic with their OTP they will get the impression you respect their OTP and the characters of their OTP and they will be more likely to trust you to write a fic they can read.

People who are a fan of something have certain perceptions of their characters that are truth *to them*. Whether it is A is in love with B, A and B are best friends, A is cool and intelligent and a complex character. So they won't want to read a fic from the other corner because they have no insurance that the other side shares the opinion on these "truths".

If I was a Shep/Weir fan, it's possible that I wouldn't read a McShep story, not just because of the Shep/Weir forever OMG!! factor, but also because I wouldn't have an insurance that the fic will at least be respectful of Weir's character. Same for the other side. If I'm a McShep fan, then McShep is my priority, I consider them a vital part of the show and of each other's characterisation. Now if you read a Shep/Weir story, Shep/Weir is going to be their priority and they are going to consider Shep/Weir a relationship that is essential to the show and the characters and Rodney is just an ok, potentially clicheed, side character who isn't necessary for a story to be complete. It's not so much about "X can't be paired with Y" it's about world view's on the characters and what the characters' priorities are clashing. It's maybe about secretly thinking that if the other side doesn't consider character A an important part of character B's life (even in a non romantic fashion) or generally of the show, then they don't respect that character and therefore don't share your worldview.

Re: Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[sg-lab.livejournal.com]

If I was a Shep/Weir fan, it's possible that I wouldn't read a McShep story, not just because of the Shep/Weir forever OMG!! factor, but also because I wouldn't have an insurance that the fic will at least be respectful of Weir's character. Same for the other side. If I'm a McShep fan, then McShep is my priority, I consider them a vital part of the show and of each other's characterisation.

As someone who likes Sheppard/Weir ship this is the problem I have with a lot of the Mckay/SHep slash I've read. And I like reading Mckay/Shep slash too.

Now if you read a Shep/Weir story, Shep/Weir is going to be their priority and they are going to consider Shep/Weir a relationship that is essential to the show and the characters and Rodney is just an ok, potentially clicheed, side character who isn't necessary for a story to be complete. It's not so much about "X can't be paired with Y" it's about world view's on the characters and what the characters' priorities are clashing. It's maybe about secretly thinking that if the other side doesn't consider character A an important part of character B's life (even in a non romantic fashion) or generally of the show, then they don't respect that character and therefore don't share your worldview.

While Mckay may not always appear in Sheppard/Weir fic that I've read, when he does I've always seen him and his relationship with John treated with respect. I don't always feel the same for Elizabeth's relationship with the guys in Sheppard/Mckay slash.

Re: Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

for example fans of Shep/Teyla seem be rather categorically dismissive of Teyla/Rononfor example fans of Shep/Teyla seem be rather categorically dismissive of Teyla/Ronon

Oh yes. I've seen this first hand about a month ago when I innocently tried to engage a poster in a conversation I found linked on sga_newsletter. The girl laughed - actually typed out "haha" - when I asked where she thought Teyla/Ronon fit into her discussion of the Teyla/John dynamic. It got to the point where I felt like I was delusional or something for seeing chemistry between Ronon and Teyla.

I think that on the het side there's more of a push for one's OTP to be "canon." Het shippers (at least the conventional shippers - Sheppard/Weir, Sheppard/Teyla) focus more on "I am going to prove how my OTP is destined to be on the show" than just general squeeing (though I'm sure that's represented too). I guess I've been swimming in the slash end of the pool too long, because I can't understand that mentality at all.

Re: Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[thelana.livejournal.com]

I reminded me a lot of a really old rant, I think from azarsuerte or debc, where she, a Daniel/Sam shipper complained about how het shippers have this stategy of declaring that the pairing they don't like are or look like siblings and then go on heavily implying that if you ship them it means that you are supportive of incest, omg! (which amuses me, considering the popularity of incest fic in a lot of current fandoms)

And after she said it, it just occured to me in just how many fandoms I had seen that thrown around. Sheesh, what happened to "Naw, they are not my thing.".

I think among het OTPlers there is a stronger tendency to not want the other side to exist. Like a slash OTPler might be more likely to say "I'll not read any fic that doesn't feature my OTP", while the more radical tinge might be "I don't want fic on couples/fans of couples that go against my OTP to exist". For the record, I have met this attitude among slasher at times, but it seems to be something that is closely related to the perceived canon-ness of the couple.

Re: Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

YES! The girl did that "I see them as siblings" argument with me too! That's so funny! Check out my comment to her essay here (http://vaberella.livejournal.com/13039.html?thread=11759). It's an open post that was shown in sga_newsletter, so I don't think that there's any harm posting here. Her answer works perfectly with that formula you mentioned.

Re: Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Brother/sister seems like the ultimate shut up argument. Because it apparently/supposedly invalidates any argument you could bring up about how the characters are so close, have so and so many emotional connections and how they have good chemistry. And the brother/sister argument is sort of to say "Yeah, you are right, but it still doesn't count because they are like brother/sister".

LOL, sometimes you get the impression that somebody brought the idea up and suddenly everybody else with the same opininion lit up and adopted it because they realized what a great argument it is. Because it's really just a slightly less friendly version of "Yes, there are good reasons to ship A/B, I see them, but I still don't like them.".

Personally, I always thought "Well, I see what you mean, but I still don't like them/they just don't do it for me for some reason" the vastly better argument. But I'm guessing many people think that in a discussion only saying "Well, I just don't like them" opens you up for the "Yes, but *neat argument 1, *neat argument 2, *neat argument 3 and you totally should! Plus, read this example fic 1, 2, 3". I can see people who just *don't like* a particular pairing might be annoyed by that and use the "brother/sister" as a shut up argument. Because it says "I already have a designated opinion on them".