*tiny impotent fist of rage*

[trinityofone]

OMG, if I see this:

New information about Sheppard's father!

(Cut for Season 3 spoilers)*

one more time, I may scream. (Quietly. Well, I'll glare at the screen.) That's a spoiler, people, for the love of tiny monkeys!**

I mean, I know I'm anal about this, but I really, really didn't want to know that--that that topic was even going to be addressed next season. I like my little bubble, and I like to be surprised. So please, err on the side of caution!

*goes back to contemplating AU academic porn*


*Totally fake spoiler
**TM siriaeve

Comments

[jetspeaks.livejournal.com]

Who doesn't love tiny monkeys? I mean, really...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Teacup monkeys! Only $5.99 with two proofs-of-purchase!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

It's still up and I don't want to click for fear of being even more spoiled, but did the 24 commenters complain/ask for a proper cut?

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I didn't click for the same reason! And it's not the first time I've seen something like that, either. One of us should be brave.

*looks hopefully at you*

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

O-ho, oh no. You're the nice and popular one! You think Rodney is a saint, so go, go, go! I'm not getting into the line of fire again ... right now ... ATM ... no really!. It's a neverending story in every fandom, one that will never go away, and both newbies as well as certain half-BNFs do it (and it's always about getting attention, so it will never stop and blah).

Ami is good for that sort of chewing out? *nudges*

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Sadly, I think Ami is asleep right now, or I would totally beg for her assistance. *sighs* *tries to think of a polite way to frame request*

Also:

1. I am not nice! Grr.

2. I really don't think Rodney is a saint. That's why the icon is FUNNY. *g*

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

See, see? You try to think of a nice way. Pshaw. What would Rodney do?


I never ever would have possibly guessed that you meant that icon to be funny, seriously, cross my heart and hope to die. *nods*


I tried to get ww to do it but she doesn't follow the comm *sigh* so there's no need to spoiler her as well.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I posted this (http://community.livejournal.com/mckay_sheppard/677176.html?thread=6059320#t6059320). (Mention of the spoiler that was outside the cut, so don't read if you don't want to be, er, RE-spoiled.)

And yes, I suppose I do try to be nice, but only because I don't have Rodney's brilliance to back up any bitchiness. We can't ALL be a perfect blend of poetry and meanness. *g*

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I don't know! But, uh. Did you see the thing on mckay_sheppard? (If not, don't go look, obviously.) Do you think I should politely ask that such things be refrained from in the future?

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I posted something. Basically, this:

My apologies if someone has already asked this, as I'm carefully not reading the other comments, but in the future could you please be a little more discreet about not putting anything that constitutes a spoiler outside the cut? I know this is anal, but I would really appreciate not being spoiled at all--having no clue as to future storylines, and that includes information like [spoiler that was outside the cut] is going to be addressed. If you could just err on the side of caution when posting spoilers, that would be great. Thanks!

Does that seem okay to you? *hates criticizing people over the internets*

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I'm relieved. Especially as I realized that posting about it in my LJ but then not saying something to the person in question (well, the most recent person in question) was kind of bitchy by itself.

I shall now try to bludgeon my brain into forgetting I saw the spoiler at all by making it endure the queues at Dunnes. ;-)

[neery.livejournal.com]

It seems very polite to me, no one else in the thread has adressed it before, and it's a valid concern, so I don't think it will cause trouble.

But then, the last time I asked someone, very politely, I thought, to warn for a certain content of their post (not spoilers, though) I was called hypocritical, lazy and irresponsible, and advised that if I didn't want to encounter something like that in my reading, I could just have a friend skim everything for me and make sure it's okay beforehand, instead of whining to the author. So I am also very wary of criticizing such things at the moment.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

They wanted you to appoint a royal fic taster? Um...

I mean, everyone screws up about labeling things at one time or another--I know I've done it. So the right thing to do is to fix it immediately when someone asks, and be polite about it. It really doesn't hurt you, and it appeases them. Right?

[neery.livejournal.com]

They wanted you to appoint a royal fic taster?

Bwahaha, I wish I'd have thought of that, it would have sounded so much smarter than my helpless flailing response.

But, yeah. Maybe if I was freakishly rich, and could appoint someone to be available to fic-taste 24 hours a day, even when I get up at 6.30 am or stay up till 3am to read... okay, no, it would still be a stupid solution for a problem that could be solved with a simple warning.

I'm kind of starting to find it amusing that someone could consider that a viable solution. Now that I'm not so full of impotent rage anymore.

[abbylee]

I suspect that was me who suggested having a friend read stories before hand (since I know I've said it recently), and I stand by it.

Just like I think that people don't get to define what constitutes a spoiler for other people, I don't think that people should get to define what needs a warning. I think it's great when an author *does* put warnings on their stories, and I've helped a number of authors learn html workarounds so that they can place them as footnotes or in hidden divs, but I stand by the idea that in the end it's the readers responsibility.

Now that the topic of the spoiler has been hidden (which I absolutely agree with) how does someone figure out whether or not they want to read it? What if they don't mind being spoiled about character development, but they mind being spoiled about episode plots? They have to ask a friend who has already read those spoilers to see whether or not they want to read this post. To me, it's the same thing in fic. If you don't mind reading graphic sex scenes but mind reading violence, then sometimes you have to rely on someone other than the author.

Again, I think it's great and nice when an author puts warnings on their story. I wish more did. But warnings don't tell you how the author handles the situation, which is sometimes the most important part. (And personally, the main reason why I avoid spoilers.) And there are so many things that an author can warn for; there are always things that certain readers don't want to see in their stories. So in the end, I still think that just like it's our responsibility to decide whether or not to click on the spoiler link, it's our responsibility to decide whether or not to click on the story. We can't depend on fandom to choose what spoilers we each think are okay, and we can't depend on fandom to choose what topics we each think are okay.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Oh. No that makes sense--and it's a good idea, too.

I sense this may be that old internet tone problem: one person's "it might be helpful to you if you got a friend to read it first" becomes another's "well then why don't you just have a friend pre-read everything for you, huh?" Tricksy internet.

[neery.livejournal.com]

Well, in my case it was "Why don't you have a friend pre-read every story that has no warning for you, and unfortunately, that's ninety percent of them, so, still not viable.

Like I said in my original response, I'm perfectly willing to ask friends about every story where there is any indication that I might have a problem with it -- even if it's just "Author's notes at the end", or "caveat lector", or "spoilery information about my stories on a separate page", or, hell, just knowing that the author like to write dark fics, but if the author refuses to give me any chance to sense that her story might not be for me, well, I don't see the difference between that and a non-cut spoiler, in that it doesn't leave me any chance to avoid the topic without avoiding the whole fandom except for a few trusted friends, or having everything filtered first.

As for what to warn for -- my original answer was, "Everything that's bound to upset or annoy more than, say, 25 or 30 percent of fandom", because that's a lot of people getting their feelings hurt.

(Trinity, I'm sorry, I certainly didn't want to drag this debate into your LJ -- I shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.)

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

*headdesk* Okay, now I see your point, too. That's the problem with this debate: both sides are right, in their own way.

I mean, I know that as a reader, there are certain things I want to be warned for. As a writer, I don't want to give away major plot points of my story. I wish there were an easier way for people to do what amireal and I are going to do for our upcoming epic: have a note that says, "Need more specific warnings? Click here" and then have a separate page that is warning-a-licious.

I still think everyone should use their best judgment when posting warnings, and then--if even one person has a problem--do the courteous thing and post a correction. (Well, unless that person's being crazy and asking for, say, a warning for cucumbers. But again, best judgment.) And...and we can all be polite and friendly and frolic through a field of tulips!

*sigh*

Anyway, yeah, I don't think this argument's ever going to end, but I'm sorry if either of you was hurt.

[birdsflying]

Aaaarrghhhh!

I hope that doesn't turn up on my flist because I will scream and scream and scream. :nods:

:returns to writing AU Academic porn Dissertation AU Academic porn Dissertation:

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

The most recent example (although not the first, sadly) is on mckay_sheppard, so I'd just avoid that for now. People on my flist have posted spoilers, but they've all been great about it: "S3 spoilers behind the cut" and that's it.

Your icon is AWESOME. *imagines Rodney meeting Jayne* *is frightened...and INTRIGUED*

[birdsflying]

Thankfully, I do not read mckay_sheppard so and I filter communities out of my friendsfriends, so I should be ok. But still, why do people do it!? Argh!!!

The best thing about that icon is the the screencap I used is so great out of context! I wish I could have shown it clearer but Rodney's eyeline is so not at John's face and you get a great view of John's ass/thigh holster that I sadly had to hide with the text.

But it was the best day ever! :g:

(Rodney and Jayne. Oh. my. god.

"I take everything I have ever said about Ronon the Barbarian back. The new guy is a box dropping man ape gone wrong!")

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I wish I could have shown it clearer but Rodney's eyeline is so not at John's face and you get a great view of John's ass/thigh holster that I sadly had to hide with the text.

No, the cropping, the, shall we say, emphasis on John's, shall we say, thigh-region--they all get that point across very well. It's awesome.

And oh man, I totally want Rodney to meet Jayne now. mandysbitch already did him and River so well, but I could read about 10,000 pages more of that, too. And ooh--John and Mal. Angst off!

[birdsflying]

And Ronon and Jayne could bond over weapons! "This is Vera." "Nice."

John and Mal. Ahaha. Captain Tightpants vs Lt. Col. Tightshirt!

Dissertation. Yes. Almost at the word count for more AU fic!

[neery.livejournal.com]

I was also very baffled, a few months ago, every time someone warned for their fics with a line like "Spoilers for season 2: Ronon is mentioned."

Um, bwuh? That is the whole spoiler, right there! What are these people thinking?

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

*laughs* Yeah. I mean, with something like that, it eventually has to stop being a spoiler and start becoming, you know, "this character, he exists! in canon!" But if you still think it's spoilery enough to label it (like, say, BEFORE ANY OF THE EPISODES HAVE AIRED AT ALL), label and get gone--no details!

[in-the-bottle.livejournal.com]

I think I know which post you're referring to. I think I actually screamed at the screen.

And yes! AU academic porn is teh good!

[amireal.livejournal.com]

*subtly shifts you to car!porn*

[lillian78.livejournal.com]

You know I'm just the opposite, I'm a total spoiler whore but it pisses me off royally when someone puts a spoiler right there in the header. *headdesk* It gives the rest of us considerate, careful spoiler whores a really bad name. Urgh.

[nakedwesley.livejournal.com]

That stupid spoiler was in the subject line of the Gateworld feed too. Heck, I've seen it popping up everywhere, with a line further down: "This may be a bit of a spoiler..."

Well, DUH!

[shoemaster.livejournal.com]

Gateworld is SHIT about that, like everytime. They have headlines of "Interview with XYZ about their role as DEF. some spoilers for season 3"

If I wasn't being a quasi-spoiler whore for next season (five months is just a damn long time!) it'd really piss me off.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to stay unspoiled too, and it's so frustrating when people don't realize that mere *mention* of an actor or a character is actually a pretty big damn deal.