Why is SGA fandom so segregated?

[trinityofone]

lavvyan! I got your package! Thank you so much, it's gorgeous. (To curious parties: it's a piece of papyrus with the Ancient Egyptian calendar on it.) Actually, the tube it came in is gorgeous, too. But I really want to try to get it framed. And this Treed Murray poster, which I keep saying I should treat myself to. (Hey, I have a new apartment and a new office to decorate here!) There has to be a cheap frame shop in existence somewhere...right?

I am incredibly, incredibly tired today. I was exhausted yesterday, and couldn't even make it through The Daily Show before I crashed. This is bad. I thought I was adjusting to my new work schedule, but I guess I'm not. Is there any way to train yourself to need less sleep?

One thing that has almost kept me energized has been the response to the SGA Bulwer-Lytton Contest. There are so many awesome and hysterical entries, it's going to be killer to choose. So I think I'll pick my--15? Is that how many entries an LJ poll allows?--my 15 or so favorites and let people vote on the Grand Prize Winner. Unless anybody has wild objections, I'll put that up tomorrow.

Like I said, the response has been incredible, and I've seen some new names (by which I mean: people I don't know, even by association, not "people who don't usually comment here"), which is always cool. But--and please correct me if I'm wrong--I still seem to be attracting mostly McKay/Sheppard people, or at least mostly slash people. Which in general makes sense, because hey, I write McKay/Sheppard, I talk about McKay/Sheppard, most of my friends are into McKay/Sheppard. As far as I'm concerned, McKay/Sheppard is for yay.

BUT. I like other pairings, too (my other fandom interest could possibly be described as McKay/women), and I think at least a little cross-pairing pollination is to be encouraged. My last fandom was BtVS/AtS, and it was wild, man. I mean, I started out a Spuffy shipper (Shut up! Their love was pure snarky and hot! At least before it became canon, anyway) but I liked the slash a lot (Buffydom was where I really grew to be comfortable with slash) and I wrote and read some of pretty much everything. It was all mixed.

Why is SGA so much more segregated? I mean, I don't think this is entirely a bad thing--I don't want my flist flooded with Sheppard/Weir stories, and I doubt the Sheppard/Weir shippers want a gazillion McKay/Sheppard stories on their friends pages, either. But is it just me, or is it extremely hard to organize activities that include all sides of fandom? Take reel_sga. The response to that has been great...but as pairings go, not very diverse. In terms of my personal reading habits, that's fine, but I had kind of hoped that there'd be more pairings represented. And maybe there still will be. That would be cool.

(Speaking of one nice bit of pairing diversity, I really loved this reel_sga entry: McKay/Ford art by deani_bean. It's the tie thing. That's awesome, and that transcends OTP-loyalty [and I say this as someone who is mockably OTPish at times]. Which is cool, no?)

Anyway, the Bulwer-Lytton thing is different, because of course it is not pairing-centric: it's mostly about mocking style and usage, although certain tropes have been fun to mock, too. It's about bad writing, but it's also about amusing and clever writing, and seeing what you can do in the space of a sentence. That's something everybody can appreciate, right?

So I guess what I'm wondering is, where are the het shippers? (Again, please correct me if they're around and I've just been too dumb to notice.) And I just don't mean, why aren't they here, responding to this--what is here is awesome, and I'm not like, demanding more people participate, omg. I just mean, I've been in this fandom for almost a year now--how have we managed not to interact at all? Of course, part of this may be me--I'm certainly not trolling john_elizabeth, because why would I want to? So I'm also not saying, "Sheppard/Weir peeps! Why aren't you over at mckay_sheppard? We've got a hot tub, come hang out!" Because seriously, why would they want to? But the fact that there's little-to-no crossover is just astonishing to me.

Maybe it's just that we have a situation that's more like X-Files fandom than Buffydom. Back in the old days, I was rabid about MSR, and I just didn't go anywhere near the slash. (Or Scully/Skinner, or whatever else there was.) I can't remember very well, but I think I was actively afraid of those unfamiliar corners of the net, and that included any of the projects "those people" may have been involved in. Of course, I think this may have had MUCH more to do with the fact that I was 14 than with my shipping preferences, but could there possibly be some connection? What I'd like to know is, do most people on the het end of fandom see even a name associated with slash and immediately go, "Avoid! Avoid! Avoid!"? Which, I hasten to say, would be totally their right. But I realize, I don't even know anyone over there that I could ask.

I'm not saying that there needs to be some sort of cross-ship dialogue, because I think those things tend to end in angry glaring at best. Possibly, just ignoring each other is the best way to avoid conflict, and I'm all for avoiding conflict. I'm just surprised there isn't some sort of neutral zone, some shaded area at the center of the Giant Venn Diagram of Fandom Life. Why do you think that is?

Comments

[farohji.livejournal.com]

in my expirence that's sort of what fandom does. in the days of MLs people were more together, since it can be frustrating running MLs, but since lj people find it easier, or something, and go off and make their own thing. two of the other big fandoms i'm "in" are Prince of Tennis and DC comics and they do the same thing.

Prince of Tennis has a stupid amount of communities for teams and certain pairings and a certain group, etc. for a really long time there wasn't even a place for het shippers to hang out. the "main" community WAS the slash comm.

DC is a bit different because it sort of gives off the feeling of fandom being one giant park and everyone's made their own campsite. there's pathes between everyone and a connection by where they are, but not everyone hangs out everywhere.

anyway, my two cents is basically, it can be frustrating, but it's really not that uncommon. and i haven't had time to read any of the comment, so sorry if this is just repeating everyone

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Hello. I list you as a friend and I'm a proud multi-shipper.

I'm all for avoiding conflict. I'm just surprised there isn't some sort of neutral zone, some shaded area at the center of the Giant Venn Diagram of Fandom Life. Why do you think that is?

Let me know if you find one. This is my first fandom and I'm a little surprised by the tenacity with which people are slashers or not. I did avoid the slash at first, because I think I didn't get what it was, but now I read and write whatever takes my fancy.

You know though, even within slash, there's the whole McBeck vs McShep battles... or in het, there's the Sheyla vs 'Sparky' (I don't get the nicknames and name-smooshing thing... *confused look*).

Anyway, waves.

[veracity]

Name-smooshing seems like a lot of extra work to remember. It's easier for me to say McKay/Sheppard or Teyla/Ford cause then I'll know who I'm reading. I felt like that in all the fandoms I've been in (boyband slash wasn't that terrible compared to Buffy or HP, though). I still haven't figured out how Sparky is a name for a pairing, but then, I don't read the fic so I wouldn't. Much like the Pumpkin Pie and Good Ship over in HP. *shakes head*

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Ya know, oddly, I started out in this fandom as a John/Weir shipper. Didn't last for long at all, but it's how I started out. Then I got sucked into McShep and have lovingly stayed there since.

Don't have a giant aversion to Sparky stuff, other than it's name which gives me a great desire to go out and shoot the closest 13-year-old with a Zat. And they complain about McShep!

But yeah, I know what you mean about the segregation. I don't know what it's like on the Het side of things, if all their pairings are very kept apart, but it doesn't seem to be like that on the slash side. Yes McShep is the main pairing, yes even a lot of non-McShepers write McShep. My friend, cassiejamie is one such author. But we also read other stuff. There's the McKay/Sheppard/Becket OT3 which is fairly big and bridges the gap. And there doesn't seem to be a giant aversion to things like Rodney/Zelenka, or John/Ronon or even Rodney/Ronon. Or Rodney/Carson, or John/Carson or... so on.

So basically, the main devide seems to be between slash and het. Which seems to be a fairly common thing in most fandoms. The thing that might make it stand out more in this one though, is that the main Slash OTP is bigger than the main het OTP.

Went to Pegasus One in Februry. Everywhere I went, slashers. Most of 'em McSheppers. Didn't come across a single John/Elizabeth shipper, or not one who admited it anyway. Tons of people wearing these John/Rodney shirts they bought in the dealers room (including me, yay!). You couldn't swing a cat around and not come across some one who wasn't at least friendly towards it.

So, because of that, it's probably more noticable. In most fandoms, slash is on the outside, or edging up towards the main pairing. Though, big time slash OTP is becoming more common these days.

Take The Sentinal for example - the het scene in that fandom was almost non existant. There were a few who paired Blair with that Australian cop but almost everyone who wasn't a Genner was Jim/Blair. My other two main examples would be Star Wars with Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan and Highlander with Methos/Duncan. Though, I'm not really in those fandoms.



So, yeah, the only reason the segregation apears so odd is probably because it's the slash pairing that's the biggest, and also as some one else pointed out - the sheer numbers.



Though on a seperate but related note. In SG-1 I'm a SJer. Loyal, totaly SJer. But, oddly, I like a good Daniel/Jack fic now and then. Dangerbunny has some good ones. Maybe I just like slash too much these days.

[30toseoul.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Well, personally, I've been reading fanfic for about twelve years, and I've never had a pairing that grabbed me by the throat like McKay/Sheppard. Never. So I have little to no interest (thus far) in reading about other pairings, and I never bother searching them out. This is different from my other fandom experiences; maybe it's the same for a good percentage of others in SGA.

[nonniemous.livejournal.com]

#1, I think because everyone runs off to create their own little community for their own little kink and there's no way to find or keep track of all the little splinter groups. My experience in large fandoms is limited to TS (and I beg to differ with the responder who said there was no het in that fandom; maybe not much het, but a lot of gen, some of it mine) but even in a fandom as large as TS there were basically two main mailing lists, one slash and one gen/het, and everyone but everyone came there to play. About the time I left things were starting to fracture more, the Neanderthal!Jim and Saint!Baby!Blair fights a major factor, but still, there weren't nearly the number of communities that we see now with LJ in the mix.

#2, as a non-McShepper, it's both frustrating and overwhelming to hear McSheppers saying, hey, bring your ship to our hot tub! We'll share! Er, no? Stories that aren't McShep get far fewer comments and far less response in LJ than other pairings. Fans of other pairings have more trouble getting threads started or answered. Why come to a party where you're pretty much a wallflower? Oh, no one's deliberately excluding you, but because you're not on board with the main OTP it happens anyway.

As far as crossing the "divide", I'm an omnivore. I would read anything if it was well-written enough--and in character. Convince me of McShep and I'll read it, even though when it comes to slash I'm a die-hard McBeck fan. (though I do love a good McBeckShep where Carson's not just there to provide more tabs and slots for sex and the real relationship is obviously McShep.) Still, my absolute favorite story will always be a good gen action adventure "coulda been an episode/tie-in/tvmovie" story featuring all three guys. (not a huge Teyla or Weir fan, though I'm trying to branch out more on that front.) There aren't many of those out there, though, so I read a lot of other stuff.

Lately, though, my patience for anything McShep, or even John-Rodney friendship, is fast fading. It's getting to where there is almost nothing written, gen, slash or het that isn't John/Rodney of some species. New authors come into the fold, find out what the preferred OTP is, and never even investigate what else is out there. Er, at least four more characters to play with? More if you count Zelenka and Lorne and Novak and Caldwell and so on. But all I see is a constant parade of variations on all the positions one can take on John and Rodney. Blech.

Because the McShep contingent is so large in the fandom, any other pairings tend to be overwhelmed--which leads to even more communities being created, as minority pairing fans seek out others of like preference, no matter how small their numbers, and attempt to build our own safe space above the flood of McShep.

Again, I don't get the feeling that any of this is deliberate, nor is there a perceived sense of animosity, not that I can see. (Not being a Sparky fan, I can't speak to interactions with that group.) But with such a huge disparity between the numbers of fans of various preferences, I'm not sure there's anything to be done about the splintering. Except, of course, making sure the none-McShep authors get as many comments as the McSheps do. ;-)

As always, mileage varies.

[natroga.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree with everyone who thinks that the SGA fandom isn't all that segregated. As in, for me it's sometimes not segregated enough. *is horrible OTP/OTC snob* I tend to squirm when I see people reccing certain pairings.

But, well, on the other hand, I don't have all that much fandom experience. My main fandom (and my first OTP) has always been CSI, and seeing as my pairing used to be what we used to call rareslash, it was frustratingly hard to find good fic. I'm not even going to mention my time in the HP fandom as an exclusive het reader. Finding fic was actually hard work. So, I don't know, maybe I'm totally off base here.

Oh, and if so many people ship Rodney/Teyla, how come no one is writing me any? *wants fic, dammit* ;)

[wesleysgirl.livejournal.com]

I'm a slasher, and I think Jossverse fandom was/is also as you describe. I have a Buffy/Angel (the pairing) fan on my flist and she linked to a post by another B/A shipper where everyone was pimping B/A and Angel/Cordy fics, and even though I've read a fair amount of het fic in Jossverse it was still like stepping into another world.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I don't assume everyone who writes slash is a "slasher"; or rather, I don't assume that a person who is a slasher only likes slash. (As I said...um, I think up this thread (maybe to liviapenn?) that's a definition that I believe has changed.) I'm definitely a slasher, but I like het a lot, I've written tons of het in other fandoms, and I've even written some in SGA. (McKay/Teyla and McKay/Cadman.) I'm open to it!

I also do make a habit of clicking on just about everything on sga_newsletter--at least the meta-type posts--when I have the time. I don't always comment, but I like checking things out and knowing what's going on. Of course, since people aren't REQUIRED to comment on everything they click on (that would be a tiresome rule!) I of course can't know if "the het people" (and I do wish there were a better term) ARE looking at the less ship-related things being done by the "slashers"; I was just observing that something like reel_sga, which made an effort to be friendly to all pairings (although admittedly all four mods came from the slash end of fandom) attracted, for the most part, an almost entirely McKay/Sheppard-oriented response. (I think there may have been a Teyla/Ronon fic, a Cadman/Carter fic, and one gen fic besides the McKay/Ford thing I mentioned.) And I was wondering, inarticulately, why.

I was also remembering my own attitude when I first entered fandom and was very het-only, OTP oriented. I was wondering how prevalent that attitude is, and if that's why the het side (and by this I really mean the people who ONLY write het--not you) is so isolated from the slash side. I am sure there are also slash-only people who don't want anything to do with the het side, and that's its own issue, but they're not the ones who I don't know where they are. Without going on places like john_elizabeth and trolling (which would be a bad idea on EVERY level) I don't know how to reach them or put myself out there in a way that would generate a positive response.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I didn't communicate that very well. I suspect I still may not be--there are way too many parentheses in this comment. *g*

[exegesis.livejournal.com]

The diversity is out there, but as per your comment on 'pigeonholes (people staying in their little corners)' it doesn't necessarily spread too far from home. Part of the problem is lj itself - not everyone uses it and communities can be hard to find. I often find mine through word of mouth rather than searching.

Personally, in SGA I am a fan of McShep, McWeir, McTeyla, McBeckett, McDex, McZelenka, (Rodney whore here!), as well as Sheppard/McKay with Dex, Weir, Beckett, Teyla, Cadman, Zelenka, Lorne, as well as Dex/Sheppard, Dex/Zelenka, Beckett/Zelenka, Teyla/Weir and Beckett/Cadman. I'll happily read all these fics, but I only write McShep. About the only thing I can't stomach is Shep/Weir (although that in canon wouldn't bother me).

For a 'neutral zone' I think it depends whether you mean on lj or off - fanfiction.net could be touted as such, but tends to be more gen due to their rating rules. Its also a hangout for many younger writers as a result. Wraithbait is primarily slash (and McShep). Area52 is entirely slash and Heliopolis is far more SG-1 than SGA (as it was set up for that in the first place). I suppose a better question to ask would be - do the majority of people want to merge? I think its less to do with the show (someone above mentioned the versatility of Joss Whedon led to the versatility of fandom, I disagree) and more to do with the personalities and interests of those who are in the fandom. Part of it comes from the intolerance of other fans - I'm sure you've seen the hostility that can pop up between people when they feel their OTP is threatened - hence Shep/Weir fans often disliking McShep and vice versa.

Like you, I wouldn't mind more merging and convergence, but I don't see the fandom as broken or segregated as you say. Its just different people with different interests - why should they all have to play together. If we want the divergence, we just might have to dig a little more. Alternatively, try setting up a neutral zone, but I doubt that would be successful. For the most part, people like their little corners.

Because everyone else is doing it - My fandoms include (gen and slash) - SG-1, SGA, Firefly, Buffy, Angel, the Professionals, Velvet Goldmine, the Sentinel, Due South, Highlander, Hard Core Logo, HP, the Mummy, Underworld, Star Wars, Hercules and Xena (is ashamed) and Battlestar Galactica. I may have missed a few...

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I’m bitextual – I like slash and het and gen, and have written each in SGA. My One True Character on the show is John Sheppard, and he’s always the one I want to read about or write the most. I pair Rodney and John and still like Elizabeth. I like *all* the main characters on SGA, although if pressed for a sacrifice I’d shove Carson out the airlock (and I loathe Caldwell, but he’s not a main character).

My feelings about different pairings is dependant on the characters involved – McKay/Sheppard works for me at all times, but Sheppard/Weir is mostly limited to the latter half of the first season (the bonds of leadership and desperation during the time of isolation) or futurefic. Weir/Zelenka is romantic, Weir/Dex is all about opposites attracting. I’m less into Teyla pairings because it’s hard for me to see her allowing emotion to overtake her reason. I’ve read Rodney/Ronon and enjoyed it but have no urge to write it. John/Ronon is all about sex and warrior bonds. And that’s not even getting into the minor characters.

Wraithbait provides some interesting statistics; slash stories far outnumber gen or het. As of today:

1831 slash stories
836 gen stories
510 het stories

I’ve archived every story I’ve written (save one) on Wraithbait, and it provides an interesting look at which of them are the most popular: a Sheppard/McKay explicit porn story has twice the number of hits as my next most-popular story, which is Sheppard/McKay with plot. Right in line with that are two shorter McKay/Sheppard pieces, who have almost the same number of hits. An Elizabeth/Ronon story has been viewed by half as many people. Rodney and John-focused gen stories are more popular. An Elizabeth gen story is less popular. And I have no clue how many of these hits transformed into “read the story completely” – my level of feedback is not high, but it does show that given nothing but pairing and summary, Sheppard/McKay draws more interest.

As a writer, if I’m going to get the most feedback for writing Sheppard/McKay, am I going to spend a lot of effort on het pairings? Now me, I write what moves me when it moves me, but there are market forces in place telling me that the demand is for more Sheppard/McKay stories.

Another community for gen and het fanfiction is lostcityfound, by the way.

[partners4life.livejournal.com]

I don't think SGA fandom is segregated at all. Every fandom pairs off into het and slash camps, then pairing specific communities, and I don't think SGA is any different.

My first fandom was The X-Files and I was a rabid Mulder/Scully 'shipper (still am *g*). In that fandom, it wasn't that Mulder/Skinner or Mulder/Krycek offended me, it was I didn't see slash in that universe. I saw Mulder as being in love with Scully - end of story. Back then I didn't read XF slash, but now occasionally I will read a Skinner/Krycek piece. However, I still cannot see Mulder with anyone but Scully.

I think SGA fandom has the same philosophy. People see chemistry between various characters (for me it's McKay/Sheppard) and then go with that. They join their favorite pairing communities (like mckay_sheppard or mcshep_otp and focus on that aspect that they like.

Just because I don't see Teyla/John or John/Elizabeth, doesn't mean I dislike het or wouldn't associate with people who do. It just means I don't read it. I'd much rather read about Lorne/Parrish, Ronon/Radek or even Carson/Cadman. McKay/Sheppard is my OTP, so I don't stray far from those authors who write it. Maybe that means I segregate myself, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. It's just my reading preference.

[http://users.livejournal.com/daysleeper_/]

My experience is that, with slash so popular and prevalent in the SGA fandom, there's a lot of peer pressure to produce it and participate in that area.

Also, unless you're writing popular pairings (i.e. the almight McShep) your work gets almost ignored, while stories of mediocre quality by McKay/Sheppard BNFs are drooled over by arse-kissing fangirls. It's pretty discouraging.

[cough] But I'm not bitter.

[stellahobbit.livejournal.com]

If you're a newbie to fandom (be it SGA or anything else), you don't know anything or anyone (hence newbie) so how is peer pressure going to affect you?

If you've been in several fandoms then I assume you'd gravitate towards the pairing/s you enjoy, regardless of what other people are writing.

::shrugs:: Maybe I'm being old and cynical, but if a person's time is limited, and fandom is supposed to be fun, so why would anyone become involved in or partipate in something they didn't enjoy?

[plsteward.livejournal.com]

SGA's not that bad, but now that I think of it from what I've seem most of tthee fandom is via lj whch provides for a bit more eclecticness on my part as opposed to the mailing lists & group-thingys that my other fandoms seemed to be based out of. On those you pretty much had to adhere to the list rules (#1 was usually don't talk about things that break brains, aka any ships that are not the listmod's OTP.) Because of that & the time it took to play in just one pool, I never got much exposure past the pairings that my buds were into. Someone above (I'm too lazy to go back & find out who) said that SGA isn't as bad as SG1, which is so true. There are several sects, the Sam/Jack-ers, the Jack/Daniel-ers, the "Season 5 never happened & I don't wanna contemplate a world with out Daniel- lalalala- not listening."-ers, the anything with sex folks, & the anything good folk (the last three could care less about ship, but they all seem to be at odds at various times.) I was brought into the fandom by J/D fans, but I thank god I figured out the cliques & found good writers, but I still tend to vere towards J/D because for some reason S/J hurts me (I think I was brainwashed, but then again, I've never been too fond of het.)

Now my other fandoms are not segragated at all, but they are small or well, like DrWho which has a bisexual canon with a huge following of all ages. I think the size matters in such matters as shipper wars, in small fandoms the mods don't want to risk the infighting & getting a bad rep, so they try to stop the drama & invite everyone to share nicely. In the bigger fandoms, the mods don't need to worry because if 20 or more get alienated in a group of 300 or more, it's no big deal.

Another issue with both SG fandoms is the lack of a cohiesive & comprehencive user-friendly archive. There seems to be just the two main ones, Heliopolis & Area52, but no mixed archive. A majority of the fans seem to be older & distaining of ff.net which was the primary archive for my past fandoms, which doesn't have a switch to tune out the slash or gen, that means for people who are just searching on ff.net they might end up with a great slash fic which makes them want more when they previously thought only het or gen was good, or vice versa. On the more controled archives which are segragated into the three separate websites, if a person searches for fic, they will only find the fic they are used to.

All in all, it leads to the fandom being fragmented, but still it isn't that bad. You were just spoiled with BtVS, or maybe that's "shown how fandom should work".

[joolz01.livejournal.com]

I haven't read through all the threads, so sorry if this has already been covered, but I wanted to give a shout out for the OT4 fic, Team!Porn, whatever. I never would have considered this in season 1, ew, but in season 2 the John/Rodney/Teyla/Ronon fic has totally surprised me with its hot. Oh, not for an ongoing relationship, but every now and then, yeah.

I like the across boundaries fic that are maybe slash and het, both, and there are a fair number of good SGA fics of that type.

But as far as what I read, lack of time has a lot to do with it. My favorite pairing is John/Rodney, and when I have a whole stack of McShep stories saved that I haven't had time to get to yet, I might pass over another pairing, without being opposed to it in any way. For example Rodney/Radek, Rodney/Teyla and Teyla/Radek I sometimes like, but I gotta prioritize.

And there are some pairings (which I won't list) that really squick, but *shrugs* what can you do?

[bistokidsfan77.livejournal.com]

Interesting thread. I've been in SGA fandom since the beginning, but really lurked, I mean seriously had the cloak on, for a LONG time, because I have been burned in fandoms before. I've always been very open about shipping, whether het or slash, if the characters spoke *together* to me, I went with it. I love the classic slash ships of Starsky & Hutch, MFU, Pros, Trek. I also was part of the great P/T of Voyager. And, yeah, I was and am still Spuffy - deal with it :P

I initially resisted coming out with my McShep OTP because of the whole SG1 S/J v J/D debacle. However, I've found that SGA is much better about differences. Not that I'm waiting to hold hands around a fire on the mainland and sing the Athosian version of Kum Ba Ya anytime soon, at least there's no overt hostilities. And, believe me, that's pretty darn good in fandom.

I'm totally McShep - so much so that I cannot het Rodney or John at all - it just does not work for me. I sorta can OT3 & OT4 if the story is written right. McShep works because the canon characters just go on out and text their hearts out. DH & JF aren't afraid to work their chem & it's really there, thus making fanon & canon so close. I can't read fic that makes them ooc, and Mary Sue/Marty Too stuff makes my head spin in a really bad way, but I'm so lucky that there are so damn many great writers in this fandom.

What's fun with SGA in the secondary (for me anyway :D ) pairings like Zedexa, Porne, or Stackham. I even het Cadman/Beckett & Ronan/Teyla cause they're great. I really enjoy that this fandom can make an OTP of 3 (?) minutes of airtime between Parrish & Lorne - heh.

I think that the divisions are self-regulating. We all know what we like, and there's no point in fighting about it. If you want to find fic/vids/images for your OTP, there's sources all around - long live LJ! The SGA newsletter is the first thing I check every day just so I know what's going on in the fandom.

I've always felt really welcome. So welcome, I'm even contemplating starting to kill some plot bunnies that have sprung up. Eep...shutting up now...

[alizarin-nyc.livejournal.com]

Is there any way to train yourself to need less sleep?

If you learn a way... let me know!

As for SGA, yeah, there is segregation and I have to join communities and go in search of the Ronon/Weir, Zelenka/Weir and what have you. I think that by-and-large the "McShep" and "Sparky" fandoms just don't intermarry. But I do find that the other two het pairings, in addition to Teyla/Ronon, do sometimes fall into a common space. But if Sheppard is paired with anyone else, people get tetchy!

Frankly, I followed some BtVS and AtS people over into SGA, as that was my initial draw as well...

[nakedwesley.livejournal.com]

I compromised and got myself a smaller version of the Treed Murray poster. *hearts* I still need to get it framed though.

Fandom: I tend to stick to my little corner of fandom, so I don't notice what goes on elsewhere unless someone comments on it. I'm not fond of Sheppard/Weir but I'd be open to trying it if someone recced me something good. Interestingly, I don't mind the idea of them in AUs. Maybe because they tend to give Weir more of a personality, or maybe because the constraints of leadership are removed from the relationship.

I'm curious why there's no Weir/McKay out there. Or is there and I just haven't seen it? That's my problem. Not knowing where to look. My het OTP is actually Rodney/Sam, which I stumble across now and then. (Interestingly, I don't much like Sam on SG1 either.) I'd love recs for either of these pairings.

It feels to me like slashers are often more open to reading/accepting het pairings than the other way around, but again, that could be my limited experience. There's so much McKay/Sheppard out there that I can barely keep up, let alone go snooping on the 'other side', hoping I'll find the Good Stuff. And I'm far more likely to read a meta post or participate in a challenge/contest run by someone I've heard of, which could be why you don't see as many het/gen people participating in your stuff.

[nakedwesley.livejournal.com]

Having read through some more comments I wanted to add:

I don't quite understand this idea that people come into fandom deliberately looking for the most popular pairing/character -- is this so they can be 'popular' too? I guess I was really spoiled in the Buffy/Angel fandom (my first and only before SGA).

I read/write what catches my interest. I experimented early on with McKay/other, consciously keepinng an open mind, then I read some great McKay/Sheppard and I was hooked. I write it because I love it, not because it's popular. If I was in it for the feedback I wouldn't have been writing Wesley years before he became popular on Angel.

*climbs off soapbox*

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

I really think that it's because McShep is such the dominant ship in the fandom. Even two options as fandom OTPs gives greater variety and people looking for yet more options. (I don't think Sheppard/Weir is even close in the running.) As someone who's a multi-fandom and multi-shipper, I've had a heck of time breaking into SGA fandom or even create some sort of community, as I've been trying with sg_femslash and the very few femslashers in both SG-1 and SGA fandoms.

[sg-lab.livejournal.com]

Sheppard, Weir and Mckay are my three favorite characters. And I can pair Sheppard with either of them. I don't care for threesomes and Weir and Mckay are like siblings to me.

I play more in the Sheppard/Weir areas of fandom and have had a lot of fic recc'd to me. I've read a lot of Sheppard/Mckay fic, but I haven't had any recc'd to me. I'm a little uncomfortable in Sheppard/Mckay areas because I've come across a lot of Weir hate.

[empressvesica.livejournal.com]

A friend and I were just discussing this the other day. She is heavy into Anime fandoms, among other things, and was saying that in her observation the SG fandoms are some of THE most segregated she's ever seen. She writes love fic - slash and het. She even wrote a fantastic SGA cross with BtVS (McKay/Fred if you were wondering). She said she lost interest because there were so few readers and such scant feedback for het and crossover het in particular.

I am just sort of wandering into this fandom...and am leaning towards the het side of the ocean as far as reading/writing prefs.

I am coming out of the big-love-in of the Jossverse fandoms - BtVS/AtS and Firefly. And yes, they seemed more "More fic! Woot!" than obsessed with pairings.

Oddly the other major fandom I muck around in is NOTORIOUS for being rabid about their 'ships (Harry Potter) and yet the corner of fandom I was in (Rare Pairings/the Slytherin Obsessed) was a quite friendly little place. It was common to find writers that read/wrote Draco, Ginny, Pansy, Lucius, Narcissa and Blaise as well as a number of permutations of pairings with those characters.

So...why? Well, SGA is still a small fandom right now (in comparison). Historically, small fandoms tend to lean one way or the other in a major way. An explanation I have heard is that quite a few well known HP slash writers wandered over early and sort of set the slash tone. They read/reviewed slash in their favored pairings more, created communities, ran ficathons...because that's why they liked.

When fandoms get bigger, you see more and more specialty groups. The small specialty groups (Draco/Ginny, Crossover writers, etc.) tend to be a more diverse group because there aren't a TON of people read/reviewing their pet ships.

Of course, this is all just my two cents.

I was tickled to see someone else debating what has been chatter on my flist for a week and something I have been thinking about quite a bit since I think my first forays into writing SGA will be het crossovers.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I will possibly attempt to say something more coherent and intelligent later, but right now all I've got is: McKay/Fred? Link!

*g*

[(Anonymous)]

Like some of the others, I'm a little surprised that you find the split between slash and het to be particularly unusual. I've been through a lot of fandoms (I'm also surprised by the number of people who say that they've only been in one or two others - I hadn't realized that I was unusual in that way), and rarely shall the twain meet.

Off the top of my head, I've been involved enough with the following fandoms enough to at least remain on a busy mailing list or check a busy major archive daily for more than 6 months: Forever Knight (gen or cannon het preferred), Highlander (gen), Lois and Clark (gen or cannon het), Blake's 7 (gen but in any category a bigger group of a$$%@*& fans you will never meet), Roswell (cannon het), HP (gen, slash, AND non-cannon het), Sentinel (gen or slash), Magnificent Seven (gen or slash), and now SGA (gen or slash). I've also played on the peripheries (more than just a couple of weeks worth of reading stories) of La Femme Nikita (cannon het), Buffy (gen or cannon or non-cannon het), Seaquest (gen), Everworld (gen), the Professionals (slash), Smallville (slash), Veronica Mars (cannon and non-cannon het), Supernatural (I'll take anything at this point as long as it's not yet more incest, please!!!), SG-1 (gen or slash), and Due Slash (slash).

With the exception of Buffy, it seems like all of the above were significantly divided by slash / het. Only a few fandoms were actively hostile about it, but SGA is actually one of the best about authors wandering outside of one or two preferred couples.

- Risha

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

You got the package! And you like it! Yay! :D

[saeva.livejournal.com]

Frankly, in the SGA fandom I've passed up many, many interesting challenges because they were slash-only for no reason except someone decided that was a condition. And I would have prefered to write gen or het or, you know, het and slash. Homophobia isn't really an issue in the SGA fandom like it is in others, at least not on LJ.

- Andrea.

Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Well I think it's definitely a case of people with similar opinions flocking together. For example, I'm not terribly into the SGA fandom, but I had two SGA hetshippers on my friendlist because we shared a different fandom. So from my perception the het side of SGA has always been rather lively and visible.

I have seen 50 Teyla recs on rec50, I have seen both Shep/Teyla and Shep/Weir plus tons of other SGA het pairings getting representation at ship_manifesto, they even have their own Rare Pairing Awards (http://isis.worldstowander.com/index.php) that actually excluded Shep/Weir because they were deemed too popular.

So to me I'm always kind of scratching my head at the accusation that SGA het isn't there. From my outsider POV I always found it rather easy to find.

Re: Here from <lj comm="metafandom">

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying that SGA het isn't there--of course it is. (Although I do wish there were more Rodney het! *looks at the universe hopefully*) I'm saying that the het side of fandom doesn't (from what I've seen) interact with the slash side very much. And I'm wondering why there isn't more of a blending, in meta and challenge responses and the like.

[grey-bard.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely sure why, but I think the dividing line seems to be Sheppard/women. There's a lot of overlap between SGA slashers and gen, and a lot of overlap between SGA slashers and non-Sheppard het.

I have two theories, and my heart isn't set on either. It could be neither or some combination of both. I have no idea.

Theory one. The character of John Sheppard is set up by the show's creators to be the most sexually attractive male major character and potentially to be the male romantic lead in a very traditional way. If, instead of relationships with minor characters, John were to become involved with a major female character in canon, many fans are afraid of how it might be portrayed.

Frequently, a romance plot can overwhelm the rest of a female character's personality in the eyes of the series writers, and also dominate a lot of screen time. If a fan isn't interested in an onscreen traditional romance plot, this may detract from their viewing experience. If the fan is particularly fond *or* opposed to a specific female character, either way, seeing her spend a lot of time in the role of lover may not be welcome.

Generally, on television, the more central the characters are, the greater the prominence of the romance in the series storyline. Also, romances are typically depicted onscreen from the point of view of the character in the relationship more central to the show. For example, no matter who Buffy dated, the relationship was about Buffy and Buffy's boyfriend. By the same token, fans of various female characters might legitimately be afraid that their favorite character might spend most of her screentime being written about strictly in the capacity of "Sheppard's girlfriend".

Given that rule of thumb, a romance between two secondary characters of relatively equal importance within the cast of characters would be far less likely to disturb the status quo. Likewise, a romance involving a character too eccentric or beyond the norm* for there to be much expectation of a typical romance would also be less likely to change the nature of the show.

Unlike slash relationships, het ones have a reasonable chance of occurring onscreen. Because of that, many people have a harder time with het pairings at separating their feeling about specific ships in possible future canon and their feelings about those ships in fic.

SGA would be particularly prone to this given the lack of an ongoing romantic plot in the first two seasons and a relatively low number of female characters for fans to watch and possibly identify with.

Theory two. How a person interprets John's behavior around women impacts much of the rest of their interpretation of his personality. Is he one of those people who just naturally appears flirtatious and thus might "never see it coming" when someone takes him up on it, or is John honestly expressing a deep and heartfelt attraction? Some het interpretations might favor the second option over the first, thus coming in conflict with a commonly held opinion among many fans of gen and slash, and leading to a very different image of the character.

Subscribers to one interpretation might quite reasonably find fic by subscribers to the alternate out of character, thus rendering the fic lacking in more than simply the reader's pairing of choice.


And that's the best I can come up with up the top of my head.

* For example, Rodney or perhaps Teal'c.

thou hast nailed it

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

I agree that the first and biggest split lies in how you interpret Sheppard. He's the fandom bicycle (the kind with the high handles, banana seat, and playing cards in the spokes) and I think probably 90% of the fandom that's interested in pairings or romance either:

a) identifies with John, and wants him with a someone who brings out what they like; or

b) identifies with another character, and wants that character with John.

So there's a kind of struggle for John's affections. I am curious about the non-Sheppard pairings and how they fit into the dynamic. Are they the bridge between different 'ship communities? Or are they just too uncommon?

I think there's also a split at right angles to the "John Is MINE!" split, and that's the "McKay: Love Him or Hate Him" split. A lot of people just don't like Rodney, which is understandable because he is *not* Mister Easy to Love.