Rite of Passage

[trinityofone]

There comes a time in every young fangirl's life when, should she still reside amongst the chalk-dust lecture halls and book-dust libraries of academia, she must pick up the mantle and write an academic paper about slash. And for me, brothers and sisters (mostly sisters), that time has come.

Basically what happened was this: my popular literature class had a guest lecturer, Prof. McCarthy. She was giving a talk on Poppy Z. Brite's Exquisite Corpse (which, embarrassingly, I still have not been able to find), and in doing so, she talked about serial killers in both history and literature, and provided us with some great quotes. (One of my favorites, Paul Anthony Woods on Norman Bates: "He registers in our hearts as one of the most loveable sickos of pop culture.") Then she showed us selected postings from the Yahoo!Group JeffreyDahmerClub. If you click on the link, which I do NOT recommend, you'll see some of what she showed us: people (mostly women) talking about how much they love Jeffrey Dahmer, how they feel he was just misunderstood, how hot he is--all very serious and earnest. I was, needless to say, disturbed by this. Especially because one of the first thoughts that entered my mind was: "Jesus, these people must've been on Yahoo!Groups talking about their love for a serial killer at the exact same time I, fresh-faced and 17, was there posting about my love for Spike."

...At which point I would like to take a time out and say: Fuck you, David Fury.

But ANYWAY...just then Prof. McCarthy said something about how both serial killers and their fans exhibit an "obsessive and insatiable" need for more, more, more. And then she brought up slash.

Slash readers and writers--the term was of course defined for the giggling audience, with the inevitable Kirk/Spock example and an increase in giggling--exhibit, said McCarthy, the same need for more of their chosen type of media: more story, more sexual tension, more sex. Brite, not a slash fan, has bemoaned the fact that while "real" writers will work hard to "create real, complex, multidimensional characters with lives that need no 'improvement' by the peanut gallery, all some readers really want is for [the characters] to fall into a huge rutting jizz-drenched scrum" (Fan Nine from Outer Space). Prof. McCarthy didn't specifically disagree with Brite; mostly she just drew the obvious connections between sex and violence, making, IMO, rather too big a deal about the possible violent connotations of the word "slash." I really wasn't quite sure what she was trying to say, actually; but more than that, I was disturbed that my mind had made the leap from Jeffrey Dahmer fandom to our fandom first, and without being prompted.

After the lecture, there was a question and answer period. I debated whether I should say anything--I didn't want to "out" myself to a room full of strangers, and I wasn't sure how to neutrally phrase a question, or even what I wanted to ask. Finally, I raised my hand and mumbled something about how, while I definitely saw the connection between obsessive-compulsive, insatiable behaviour and slash fandom, didn't Prof. McCarthy think it might have less to do with violence, and more to do with (here I stumbled, wanting to say--I think--love) romance novels? You know, the type little old ladies check out from the library, the type with Fabio on the cover? Prof. McCarthy conceded that this might be so. Class dismissed.

I left unsatisfied. I thought about just going home and writing a bitchy, dismissive post about how we are NOT like that. Yet I was still bothered by the fact that my brain had made the connection first. And what are we, if not obsessive and insatiable? What does that make us--serial readers? Serial writers? Why do we do what we do?

So I went to Dr. Jones' office hours and outed myself as a slasher.

The meeting began less than promisingly, as he greeted me by saying, "Aren't you the student that asked the question about Fabio?" I admitted that I was, and that yes, I am from Berkeley, and that yes (feeling quite the stereotype), I would like to talk more about the gay porn, please.

Dr. Jones said he was "fascinated by this phenomenon known as 'slash.'" I said I was quite an expert, but that the lecture that morning had made me think about why we did it--why I did it. One of our class' essay titles is "Write an essay on why you think formulaic writing is so popular"--could I, I inquired, write an essay about slash?

His response was enthusiastic. Very enthusiastic. Did I mention that I rather adore him? I do, I do.

Anyway, he introduced me to Prof. Silver, whom he called "the university's resident slash expert." Unfortunately, this is not an actual tenured position--too bad, 'cause nice as Prof. Silver was, I could totally have beaten her out for it. She really didn't know much about internet fandom at all, but she gave me a great book--Constance Penley's NASA/TREK, which I highly recommend, despite the fact that it's old and thus deals mostly with 'zines--and even better, a lot of encouragement. In return, I gave her links to some classic fandom stuff--she'd never heard of the Very Secret Diaries! *gasp*--and, when pressed, some of my own stories. (Yikes!) When I come out, I come out hard--bringing the clothes, the hangers, and the dust bunnies with me.

So now--

The short version: I now have just over a weak to write a paper about Why We Slash. I think I can pull together the more academic, sociological sources, but for the rest, I need your help. I want this paper to be different from other writings about slash and fandom: I'm not going to distance myself; rather, I'm going to get permission to write in the first person and include myself in the analysis. I don't want to be yet another judgmental outsider looking in (or down) on "this phenomenon known as slash"; I'm a part of it, I'm not going to deny it, and that gives me a unique perspective.

But I need other people's perspectives--other people's insights--too. So, fellow fandom folks: if you could take the time to answer the following questions, I would be deeply appreciative.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

If you want to provide info about age, gender, sexual preference, when you entered fandom or how long you've been in it, it would be interesting and useful, but obviously, I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable. With that in mind, anyone who'd prefer to take this out of a public forum can also e-mail me at kaufmaa@tcd.ie . You can also comment anonymously, though I'd appreciate it if you could provide me with some sort of alias in case I choose to quote you.

With that in mind: unless you tell me otherwise, any quotes I pull will be attributed to your LJ username (minus the LJ distinction, of course.) So if I were quoting myself, I might say: "'I'm in it for the porn, baby!' said one writer, trinityofone. 'Porn, porn, porn--that's what the internet is for!'"* If you'd prefer to be quoted under a different name, just tell me what it is. But don't get too panicky: this paper will most likely be seen by no one other than Dr. Jones, Prof. McCarthy, Prof. Silver, and myself. And we're all very discreet. ;-)

Finally, PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD. Which is to say: the red light is on, I have multiple varieties of condoms (some are flavored!), but right now I'm all by my lonesome, so I need you to pimp, pimp, pimp. Also, if anyone knows of any communities where I might be able to rustle up some participants, that'd be fab.

So in conclusion: let me know if you have any questions, and thanks in advance!

*Actually, I read slash for the articles. 'The' is a good one; so's 'a.' ...And after that display of dorkery, we're all going to pretend this footnote doesn't exist.

Comments

[kelex.livejournal.com]

1. a) Depending on the fandom, different things. In some fandoms, it's re-writing or writing around the things that happen in the show that I don't particularly agree with. In others, it's fixing bad characterization, or explaining something bizarre that a character's done that seems very OOC. In others? It's just reading more about the characters, in different types of situations than you'd see them involved in in their original canon.

b) With shipper fic, I get the satisfaction of seeing the characters that I think ought to be together, together. I generally don't ship canon pairings, but there are exceptions. In those cases, I like to see the pairings explored in ways they wouldn't get explored in canon, especially television, and in some cases, that includes sexually.

c) Okay. This is where it gets murky. Because obviously, the sexual part does play a big role in it. But, there's also the same reasons that I mentioned above; getting together the characters that I think ought to be together, and expose them to situations that you wouldn't normally see them in. There's also a very liberating feeling when you read, or write, m/m slash, because most female characters? I despise. Being a woman, I don't think I'm misogynist, there's very few that I like because none of them are written believably. Pull the characters I dislike out of the mix, and we're left with m/m. There's also the big question of subtext, what is or isn't there, and how you can capitalize on it.

2. a) They differ from each other mainly in the level of enjoyment I get out of them; depending on the fandom, I may enjoy reading or writing one type of story more than another type.

b) They differ more from the source material in that we, as fans of the original canon, are generally more *aware* of canon as a whole, because we don't get involved with bits and pieces of it. We're given the whole thing as a finished product. We make the connections between characters and events that the source material may not, simply because the source might not be aware of it.

c) Well, some fics may differ from RL a great deal and some may not; it depends on the fandom and how the particular author chooses to deal with the "reality vs. fantasy" argument. I think all fanfic in general has *some* element of not adhering strictly to reality in it, because it's intended to be an escape.

3. I write more than I read, actually. I get much more pleasure from writing, because I get to *create* the experience for the characters, and throw in the wrenches that I would like to see, and in the process, I get to *create* a story that I think other people will enjoy reading. As a writer, it's hard for me to read other people's work, because I know what kind of blood and sweat and tears and soul go into a piece.

4. My reasons for entering, in the early 90s, was curiousity. I'd heard whispers of "slash" and I had no idea what it was, and so finally, I went to a website and started reading. And... before long, I'd devoured the author's entire set of stories.

What my reasons for staying are? That's a good question. I have migrated *major* fandoms several times, mostly because my interests have shifted from one show/movie to another, but I've always *been* in a fandom of some sort. Mostly because I like to write, I love to tell stories, and I love sharing those stories with people who'll read and enjoy them. Each fandom has it's own allure, whether it's characters I love, actors I love, situations that are dying to be exploited, or complex back histories that make for wonderful fic-writing opportunities.

5. I think the advent of the Internet as a common household tool has contributed to that. All of a sudden, people are finding out they're not alone in doing this, and the 'Net's been able to unite people in ways they've never been united before, through journals, communities, email lists, e-zines, etc.

You're not judged for who you are, really, unless you're obnoxious, but for what your skills are and what you bring to the fandom, and everybody's welcome to enrich the experience with their own contributions. Even readers are welcome, because without people to read the stories, fanfic writers would be working in a real vacuum.

Biographical Info

[kelex.livejournal.com]

I had to slightly edit my comments down--not in any meaningful way, really--so I'm posting the bio information separately:

29-almost-30 year old bisexual woman with a girlfriend, two cats, and working as a full-time caretaker to a disabled/older parent.

Joined fandom in... oh, 94-95ish, started writing about 96 or so, in the Hercules and Xena fandom. Started out with Joxer/Ares and went from there. Currently writing for Stargate, Veronica Mars, and Smallville.

[twistinside82.livejournal.com]

Hello. I was pimped here by permetaform. This is fascinating. Here's my input, however useless it may be.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

Well. Mostly I get entertainment. But I also love fanfic cos it gives me so many different perspectives on characters or story lines, shows or movies that I myself have a certain view of. I love seeing how different people interpret different things. How two people can look at one character and get two different ideas of what that character is about.

I love 'shipper fic cos it gives you more of something that you already love. For example, my fandom is Queer as Folk, and my favorite pairing is Brian/Justin. The show gave me certain contained amounts (and lovely amounts they were) of the couple. Fanfiction gives me more. It gives me different. And who wouldn't love more of something they enjoy? Especially when it's as pretty as Brian and Justin. ♥

Slash fiction is hot. I think, for me, it's because it brings subtext to life. And I'm just naturally turned on by man-on-man action. Which is something I think surprises a lot of people. That a straight, 23 year old woman can be turned on by two guys going at it. But really, guys have been lusting after lesbians since practically the dawn of time, so why is that much of a shock? Anyway. Two guys together? Hot. Two good looking guys together? Hotter. Two supposedly-straight men getting together because they just can't deny their attraction? YES PLEASE.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

I don't think they really differ from each other at all. It all comes down to enjoyment. Getting more out of something that I already get so much from.

In the case of differing from source material, it's different with each story. If it's a QaF story, all it gives me is more of the same. If it's a story about, say, Angel and Spike, then it gives me the realization of subtext, the scratching of that itch that pops up every time they have a scene together. Turning my "hm, they looked at each other kind of funny ... " thought into a story where that look becomes real and has an outcome, often a hot one. ;)

I don't know how it differs from real life really. Except that I'm let in on way more. :D

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

I am a writer, and yes I do get a different experience from writing than from reading. But it's the same with original fiction and novels as well. What's great about fan fiction, however, is you have characters! You don't have to create them! And people, many people, already know all about your character. There's no introduction. You just have to keep the character in line with their canon personality as much as you possibly can. And yeah, that's difficult, but still. Pre-made characters! It's like writing bliss. :D

Anyway, rambling. Writing is different from reading in that it's your perspective. It's your manipulation of the characters that are normally being manipulated by someone else. It's taking the strings from the puppet master and making the puppets dance to *your* tune. Bad analogy, but it does the trick.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

Well. I entered fandom because it turned out that I'd been writing fan fiction for years and never knew that it was a *thing*. I wanted to be around other people that had the same obsession I did. I wanted to read things other people wrote, and hear other people's opinions on my show.

I stick around for the people, mostly. And for the things they produce.

And omg I've exceeded the character limit. Last question in next comment.

[twistinside82.livejournal.com]

Continued. :)

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

Hm. I think that a lot of women (since it seems slash fans are mostly female, no?) are just starting to realize that there are tons of women out there just like them who like the idea of two guys being together. And when women get together ... well. Things can get crazy, can they not? When you first find out that there are other people that do or think or feel something that you thought you only did or thought or felt, well, it's just such a great thing. And how not to get so excited that together you start this *movement*, this phenomena as you were saying. That's just what happens, isn't it?

Well. Hope this helped in some way. And feel free to quote if you read anything you think is worth it. :)

Also, are you going to put this paper up for reading here at all? Cos I'd be really interested to see how it comes out.

[wychwood]

will post things later when brain is working.

contact metafandom, they're a good place to try. unless you did and i just haven't seen it yet.

did i mention that i am at skip=125 right now? eep

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks for taking the time to respond to this, especially since you're in crunch time--I really appreciate it. I also really liked what you said about sports being "culturally important"--no one is more obsessive than a sports fan, and yet nobody thinks that's (that) weird. Thank you for bringing it up.

You know what would make your paper different from most of the academic and news writing about slash? If you quoted some really incredible writers -- helenish, hth_the_first, astolat, resonant, etc. It drives me crazy that newspaper writers always go and pick some random terrible sex scene off, like, fanfiction.net.

YES!! That drives me absolutely insane. And in a way, I'd kind of like to forgo the paper and just make my professors read everything astolat has ever written. Unfortunately, I don't think that would go over so well, and even more unfortunately, I don't think I'm really going to have the space to quote actual stories too much. But if I do, rest assured that they will be the really good ones. Fandom deserves that.

compulsive HP slasher checking in

[stephanometra.livejournal.com]

1a. Genfic, if written well, is a pleasure to read. However, since most fanfiction in general is not, in fact, written well, I don't read much of it. I don't really have any desire to write it, either (although the urge has popped up in the past). I much prefer character development to plot, especially in a fandom where the canon characters are for the most part two-dimensional, plot-driven stories and invented characters (staples of HP gen, I fear) turn me off. Fandom in general is a draw because I really like the HPverse. I got into it for the porn, but I've stuck around because Goddamn, I love Harry Potter. I love the setting and the framework for those books, probably more than I love the books themselves. JKR isn't really that talented a writer, but the HP world is magnificent in its suspension of disbelief.

1b. Mushy stuff is usually trite and fluffy and I don't like it much. There either needs to be angst or sex or both for a rom story to hold my interest. Rom stories involving female characters, even more so, because I'm a complete and total cynic and don't like the disconnect of comparing my personal experience with sunshine and kisses in fic. This goes, honestly, for anything, not just fanfic.

1c. Ah, porn. God, I love porn. When I discovered fandom, I went from being a closet erotica enthusiast to the kind of person who gets yelled at for merely mentioning Harry Potter in any capacity. Part of the reason I prefer m/m stuff has to do with what I said above in b., but really I think it's that I just much prefer my porn gay. I will still read erotic stuff that's f/f or het, but I don't generally seek it out. I just find male relationships (er...sex) more compelling, I guess. I've been hopelessly attracted to bisexual men for fucking ever, maybe this is an expression of that.

2a. I suppose I'm more inclined to analyze gen from a litcrit perspective, and I'm much more likely to enjoy a gen story on its literary merits. That could just be a symptom of not noticing the storycraft in the others because of all the porn. Haven't really thought about it before.

2b. Well, the reason that most people are in fandom is because they want the characters or stories in a 'verse to go further than the author/producer/what have you has had them go, or wants to have them go. I've read all of the books multiple times, but I think there are probably a couple of fics that I've read more, although they're hardly comparable in scope. Part of the reason HP is so enormous as a fandom is because that even though the themes are growing more and more adult, the books are still intended for children. Since most of those canon characters are poorly developed to begin with, fandom takes it upon itself to flesh them out, and it's pretty undeniable that sex is one of the most major ways to do that. Nobody is having sex in canon, and honestly, why would a reader expect it? But that doesn't keep us from wanting to see that side of those characters.

2c. Man, I wish that Snape were having sex in my bed on a regular basis. That would be fucking great. Seriously, though, fic, especially slashfic, is a way for me to get in on the hot hot m/m action that I'm never going to be a part of in real life because I lack the proper equipment. That's probably one of the reasons it's so fascinating.

fuck character limits, seriously

[stephanometra.livejournal.com]

3. Writing is much more stressful, but also much more rewarding, at least for me. Playing with the characters myself is satisfying in a way that reading rarely is, because as a reader, you very rarely see your personal conception of this character or that event properly conveyed in what you're reading. The first thing I ever wrote (truly horrible Remus/Sirius garbage that was never finished, and currently is One of Those Things of Which We Do Not Speak), I started because I was really tired of seeing Sirius as a playboy and Remus as a wimp. Blowing off that steam through writing my own versions of those characters, which conformed to my canon-based expectations, was one of the most liberating things that's ever happened to me as a writer (of anything, not just of fiction). And that's without even having finished it, without getting the praise or concrit that it would have garnered had I shared it with anyone. Writing allows you to make yourself happy while making other people happy, too. It's a beautiful thing.

4. True story: I was doing research for a paper for a history of science class on Caesar's bridge across the Rhine, and one of the sites that Google gave me (which looked utterly respectable based on its url, but was just a personal page) had a multitude of stuff (including pictures of the Rhine) including some links at the bottom to "Stuff I Like." One of them was for Harry Potter fanfiction, and I was intrigued. I liked Harry Potter, and I liked reading, and I really really needed something with which to procrastinate, so I clicked through to a story called So You Want to Transfigure Yourself a Rock Band. (http://www.sprunkers.com/glitter.htm) It was funny, it was endearing, and it had two of my favorite things (blowjobs and boys in eyeliner). I was completely lost to fandom as soon as I finished that story, although I didn't know slash accept it until a few months later, when I was drabbling for one of my new fandom friends and got an idea for a story that I could actually finish.

5. Girls like gay porn and the internet has made it possible for them to unite? I don't know. Maybe there are just a ton of people who feel the way I do about their respective fandoms. Neil Gaiman called fanfiction a good starting place that can become a crutch for writers who want to do serious work, but I don't agree with that. People who want to write, and who are often good writers, but don't have the time or the creativity to put into devising setting or original characters have a home in fandom. It's a place to make friends, develop skills, and obtain some truly amazing pornographic material. I know that I stay partly because I like to write, partly because there are some smart and truly nice people in fandom with whom I've become acquainted, and mostly because I just enjoy all of it so much that I can't imagine quitting.

Good luck with your paper, and feel free to quote anything you like. :)

[ajora.livejournal.com]

A friend pointed me here. This looks like a fascinating paper. Good luck with it. I hope you plan to post it on lj, if nowhere else. If not, I'd like to see a copy when you're done :)

Biographical data: I am 26 years old a physically female, though I don't really identify with femininity and tend to be more masculine in my mindset/behaviors/preferences. I am attracted to women almost exclusively and have been with my girlfriend for the past five or so years. I've been in various online fandoms since 1997, run several sites of various popularity, draw fan-art, write fanfiction, and occasionally participate in forums. But, mostly I do my own thing and ignore the rest of fandom because we almost never see eye to eye.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) For fanfiction in general, I look for new stories with characters I already love. Most of the time, I don't want to have to spend money to read something I might not even like.

b) I tend to think of romance fic as an exploration of the characters' personalities that we may not (or may never, in the case of the fandoms I'm in) see in canon.

c) My interest in slash is a bit selfish. I didn't know being homosexual was okay when I was a kid. I didn't even know it happened. We are so immersed in heterocentric imagery in our (Western) society. It's in commercials, stories, media, children's books, songs. EVERYWHERE. When I did discover slash, I was still in the closet and unsure. But now I wish I'd have run into the phenomenon when I was much younger and wouldn't have wasted so much time pretending to be straight. It made acceptance easier, if that made any sense. Nowadays, I write it as both character exploration and self-fulfillment. Making up for lost time, as it were.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

a) I don't think they really differ all that much.

b) In the fandoms I'm in, romance is nearly nonexistant. Everything is up for speculation. Also, fanfics in general tend to answer questions opened up by the source material but not addressed. I live for unanswered questions (archaeology and other human studies are hobbies of mine), and some fanfics often provide theories for those unanswered question and food for thought. Other fanfic writers also offer alternative views of the characters that may not immediately come to mind. It's like English classes where you have to derive some inner meaning from an original novel, then discuss it and the relations to the characters at length, but with a fictional universe you actually care about.

c) I don't really read much fiction. My serious reading involves science, history, or human studies texts. When I do get the hankering for fiction, I turn to fanfiction because I enjoy it. My life is generally stressful, and when I come home, sometimes I just want to read something enjoyable.

[ajora.livejournal.com]

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

I write to share my views of the characters with the fandom, to educate (I'm one of those annoying people who sneaks random facts into fics and turn them into minor plot points or symbolism), and to tell a good story. I don't read much fanfic anymore, but when I do, I expect the writer to introduce me to new ideas and offer me something that feels like the original canon, with their own special twist. As for art, I draw for fun. That's it.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I enter fandom for enjoyment of interpretations of canon. Slash is really more of a peripheral for me. If there must be relationships, I'd rather see them as slash (m/m or f/f, I'm not picky). I stay mostly for the social aspects. I've made friends though slash fandom.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

I think, for most people, it's different. For girls, it's empowering to see equal footings in relationships. But mostly? It's all about the characters, their appearances and/or personalities, and having them interact in a way that appeals to us. And, for some of us, it's reassurance that there's nothing wrong with being gay.

Part 1

[ladysorka]

23 year-old lesbian, been reading gen and hetfic since 12, femslash since 13 and slash since 15. And my mother used to leave me notes by the computer when I was 12/13 to go check out this fantastic new NC-17 Janeway/Chakotay (fandom, it runs in families).

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic;

I get to play more in the world. I can't just read a book or watch a show and merely take what's presented to me and go no further - my brain just doesn't work that way. When I was little I play-acted Star Wars or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and as I grew up I just... never lost that. I still want to play and add new stories to my favourite shiny of the week, it's just that I don't do it outside playing dress-up anymore.

I'm completely incapable of passively listening to a story - my brain wants to actively play with it. And so I do fanfic.

b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants;

One of the things rarely explored in a fashion that I enjoy in sources I enjoy, is romance - at least not long term, loving romance where people aren't off shagging other people for drama every 3rd episode. And so, I add romance to it.

When I was younger, in junior high, I read a lot of romance novels. And I enjoyed them, but I always felt that they were missing something - and once I hit fandom, I figured out what that was. They were missing the friendship and the sense that these people liked each other for any other reason that sex. Take the sex out of most mainstream romance novels, and you're left with a pretty boring story and one-dimensional characters. Whereas most romancefic, it's the other way around - the sex is an afterthought, it's just another way to add to these two character's relationship. The story would often be just as fulfilling if there was no sex in it at all.

And that's far more interesting mainstream romance novels.

c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

I really, really like relationships that start out of and come from a very buddy-like relationship. I want best friends first, lovers later. I want banter and equality and whapping each other over the head when they're being an idiot.

And that? Nine times out of ten, if you go looking for that type of relationship in a media source, it's going to be between two men. And so I slash.

...also, slash writers are some of the best porn writers I have ever seen - far better than a good lot of published erotica writers. If there's one thing slash fandom is, it's a big, huge, writing workshop on "how to write good porn".

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other;

Gen is obviously different from romance fic in that it's closer to the source material, generally, but other than that I have nothing here.

b) from the source material;

Most shows that develop large, fanfic based fandoms are either buddy cop shows (Starsky and Hutch, The Sentinel, Due South, Man from U.N.C.L.E.) or science fiction (Star Trek, Stargate, Star Wars, Highlander, X-Files, Smallville), and I don't think it's a coincidence that both those genres are generally aimed towards a male demographic. Whether it's true or not, people aiming for a male demographic generally assume that men don't want to see any sort of relationships - they want to see things get shot at and blown up.

And so fanfic comes and adds the relationships back in, be they romantic or platonic. Fanfic gives me a depth that I don't always find in the source material. I want to now why, but the source just wants to show me what.

c) from real life?

Fanfic is, at its heart, escapist fantasy. So it gives me escapist fantasy. *g*

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

N/A

...er, continued in part 2 (stupid comment limits).

Part 2

[ladysorka]

...sorry. I guess I'm wordy. *coughs*

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

Like I said earlier, I can't passively take in a story, like the powers that be want me to. I can't just sit there, be told a story in one way, and never wonder why, what happened next, what if this thing changed, what happened between, or what was that guy thinking. I want more. I want to actively make that story my own, and so I entered fandom.

I entered slash fandom, originally, because I watched the show "The Sentinel", and saw, so very clearly, the relationship between Jim and Blair, and I needed to play with that, I needed to make it clear. I wanted to know more about it, and I wanted to see it from all sorts of different angles.

As to why I'm still here?

Well, it's a hell of a lot of fun. *g*

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

Slash fandom is, I think, pretty much the only place you can get a very specific sort of story. They're romance novels, but they often have a plot behind them. They have well defined characters. They have relationships based either in friendship or intense hatred - but there's always a base to build on. And they're between two men, and don't have traditional gender roles.

Nowhere in mainstream media can you find that type of story. There's no cop show where the partners become best friends and then fall in love, all while still bringing in the bad guys; there's no science fiction series where the deep trust between a leader and his second in command turns into romance, all while they're still fighting the aliens; and there are very few romance novels that start out with people who have known each other for a long time and then fall in love - at least, not ones where the people don't immediately fall into traditional gender roles and lose what equality they previously had.

Slash fills a void that I don't think the mainstream media even knows is there.

[franzeska]

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

I tend to read fanfic when I want more of the canon and can't get it. I also like fanfic that fleshes out characters and situations the canon glossed over. Generally, I'm only interested in fandom because of a specific love of the source material. (i.e. I don't tend to watch/read things just to participate in fandom, and I almost never read fanfic for something I'm not familiar with.)

Gen, het, slash: it doesn't really matter as long as it satisfies my emotional kinks and/or has an exciting plot. I read slash most often because it has the most ridiculous over-development of friendship or rivalry and because I tend to read fanfic for low-quality source material. (Trashy books and tv shows often fail to have any developed female characters at all.)

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

I find a lot of het slash emotionally masturbatory: it's more of the same over and over and it really hits the spot, but it's basically just another flavor of trashy romance novel. I don't read many commercial romance novels because the characters are all too traditional and conservative. I like Gen because the source material is finite but fannish interest is not.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

I generally read for pure enjoyment. I don't tend to discuss it or ponder it too deeply. I write when I'm irritated. Most of my fics are inspired by OOC writing that is praised by the fandom at large. This makes me so livid that I have to go write my own story to distract them from the awful interpretation of the characters.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I've met some interesting people on lj, so I tend to keep reading their journals even when I'm not doing much in fandom. I don't really care about fandom as an institution. If I want to discuss a source material, I'll usually bore all of my RL friends with it.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

I'm not sure what you mean. I could talk about the way newsgroups, mailing lists, and blogs shape the communities that use them, but I don't think that has much to do with slash. It's my impression that quite a lot of men like watching pseudo-lesbians get it on and quite a lot of women like watching pseudo-gay men. It's a natural way of displacing the narrative if it's too violent or mushy. (For example, many people seem to enjoy reading rape stories featuring members of the opposite sex but not members of the same sex.) In my experience, slash is such a common taste that it requires no explanation. We don't ask why some men like blondes and some brunettes.

I think we overanalyze it endlessly because our hobbies are generally so important to us that we can't see that they're just hobbies. Well... and because we're nerds and endlessly overanalyzing things is what we do best.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks for responding to this. And for including the phrase "emotionally masturbatory"--that won a grin. ;-)

I think we overanalyze because while yes, this is our hobby and normal to us, it's really frickin' weird to the rest of the world. Which makes us doubt our own normalcy. Which makes us overanalyze. Rinse. Repeat.

[koneko-desu.livejournal.com]

Hi, I'm 18, female, single, heterosexual. I mostly (about 99%) slash anime characters, although very recently got into slashing two or three real life ppl as well (from tenimyu if you've heard of it). I started into the slash fandom sometime mid-grade 9, so when I was around 14/15.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) fanfiction takes characters that I like and places them in situations not provided in a show, book, etc. It's entertainment to pass the time and also sometimes a way to release emotions (ie. if I'm feeling depressed one day I might read a fanfic where there's a main character death or something, have a good cry, and feel better afterwards).

b) romance in general? well sometimes well-written fanfics allow me to at least have a smidgen of a clue as to how someone in the opposite sex might be thinking and why guys act the way they do sometimes. Otherwise it's just cute, like watching romance movies.

c) I generally only read slash fics, all of which are m/m. If I wanted to see boobies I'd go look in the mirror. I find that if a girl is involved, as much as I hate to admit it, I feel like she's competition even though she's a fictional character. It's even worse because in anime the girls are perfect physically, and they act in that girly, giggly way, which makes me want to gag and jealous for their bodies. 2 guys on the otherhand, there's no competition for me because biologically, guys and gals are different, so even though in a lot of the slashable anime the guys are really femmy anyway, they're still guys and just that fact settles any jealousy or competitive feelings in me.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

um...Not quite sure what the question is here >.<;; I guess it differs from real life in that as much as I like reading about 2 guys together, if all of them in real life prefered each other other girls 1) the species'd be extinct and 2) I'll never find a boyfriend.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

Answering as both an artist and a writer, I find myself preferring reading other people's fics than writing my own just because it's so much work to write fanfics, and after I'm done writing, I don't really feel like reading it anymore because I've stared at it for so long. Although this can change if I let the story sit for a month or two after I'm done writing and then read it, by then I've forgotten a good chunk of what I wrote anyway, so it feels kind of like reading someone else's fic. Also as a writer sometimes I put my own feelings or my own reactions to certain situations into the fics. So for example, if one character finds himself in a dilemma, I'll often think of how I would react, tweak it a little so that it suits the personality of the character so he's not too OOC, and write it in.

Art is a bit different because after I've drawn the picture, it's there, and I don't mind looking at it even though I might've spent days on it.


4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I kind of stumbled across slash accidently lol, so didn't really have a reason. As fr staying, at first it was curiosity, when you're 14/15 and you stumble across whole archives of stories about male characters in anime shows doing XXX things you're bound to get curious. These days, it's basically for the same reasons as answered in 1)c). No competitive feelings or jealousy when there's no girls in the story. Besides, being heterosexual, I like guys right? So two cute/hot guys just means double the fun..or three = triple, and so on. And once in awhile it's fun to squick those non-slashing fans who firmly believe that slash is disgutsting.

[koneko-desu.livejournal.com]

CON'T


5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

I_do_firmly believe that it is somewhat...scientific, as stated in the answer of question 4) "No competitive feelings or jealousy when there's no girls in the story. Besides, being heterosexual, I like guys right? So two cute/hot guys just means double the fun..or three = triple, and so on." When you see a pretty girl walk down the street, you can't help but admire her and wish to look as beautiful, it's the same thing in an anime/show. But if you see a cute/handsome man/boy, that sense of jealousy isn't there (unless you're a guy, hence why I think heterosexual guys like girl/girl). I know that after discovering slash fandom, I've almost completely stayed away from any anime that contains girls in a lead character position, or plays a major role in the show. I just can't handle seeing those perfect gals parading around in miniskirts across my screen, and I have a tendency to scream at the tv/computer when those girls _do_get too close to a guy I prefered slashed with another guy. My friends would probably even go so far as to say I hate, balantly despise, about 99.99% of all the chicks in anime. If I pick up a manga (japanese comic), or anime DVD with a girl on the cover, my immediate response is to shove it back onto the shelf. However I find none of these feelings have migrated into real life. Most of my friends are girls, I get along with girls fine, heck it is _WAY_ easier for me to make friends with gals than with the guys just cuz I get so tongue-tied around them. So yeah, if slash didn't exist, my selection of anime that I'll watch would shrink drastically.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Linky linky is excellent! I look forward to going through all of these in more detail--thank you very much!

Not much to say that hasn't already been said...

[ninja-tech.livejournal.com]

But I thought I would put in something I've realized about why I like slash so much. I like it because it amplifies emotion. It makes my heart break and then mends it, or doesn't and I get a kick out of being emotional about something that doesn't follow me around all day (unless it's a really good fic, then it sometimes does) and isn't MY drama. And there's something very ... natural that speaks to me--seeing two individuals have to work it out together, and in the case of m/m love, having the odds against them anyway.

I actually wrote a paper on fanfiction a few years back that I was supposed to present at a conference, but then a family emergency took me off the bill. There was only a small section of it that was devoted to slash though, as that is only one of many parts of fanfiction. So. Wonder if I could find it in a digital format for you. It might be useful. I'll dig around for it on my old hard drive. If I find it, would you want to read it? Just email me or comment on my LJ and I will happily oblige.

Re: Not much to say that hasn't already been said...

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I'm totally with you on the emotional impact of fic. Sometimes it just blows me away--it's incredible.

I'd love to read your paper if you can find it! I don't know if I'll be able to use it for this project since I'm supposed to be done with it, like, five minutes ago, but for my own curiosity and interest? Absolutely! Thank you!

[mirabile-dictu.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about your questions since I read cimorene111's post about them. I don't think I can contribute much, but they're interesting, and I would like to support your research.

(I must say, I find specious the idea of a connection between slash fiction and slashers; it's just a coincidence in the terms used. I'm glad you're doing this paper so you can educate your instructor.)

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

I read all the time; fanfiction is just another source of reading material. However, it gives me something I can't find elsewhere, and that's slash. Rarely do I read anything except slash. I recently came to the conclusion that slash does two things for me: gives me more of what I want, and gives me better than what the source offers. In slash fanfiction, I not only get more SGA, I also get better, because I can find John/Rodney stories.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

I don't think there is much difference for me, because what I desire is so specific. I want slash; I want romance; I want great characterization that, despite the homoeroticism, is extrapolated from the source material; I want long plotty stories that make me think, teach me something, and grab my heart and won't let go. Rarely, I find the source material so perfect that I don't want to read fanfiction (e.g., Firefly).

I read and write RPS, so I suppose you could say I'm looking for the same qualities in real life (even though I genuinely know RPS isn't RL). But if I have on occasion slashed RL people in my head. I think I'm a slasher first, before any other interest.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

Again, very little difference. I write what I want to read. If someone else enjoys reading my fantasies, I'm absolutely thrilled and delighted, but, selfishly, it's mostly for me. I can't articulate the pleasure I derive from daydreaming, writing, and reading these stories. I genuinely feel slash structures my existence -- it's how I see the world, understand relationships, make sense of people.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I stumbled into fandom in the early 90s. I was stunned to discover slash. Until that moment, I thought I was a freak -- I'd never heard of another person who obsessed over m/m the way I did. The internet is a blessing for many reasons, but especially for letting me know there is literally a world full of women like me. That still amazes and delights me. I can't imagine not being in a slash fandom.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

Honestly, I have no idea. Sometimes I wonder if it's because there are so many women like me, who thought they were freaks and then discovered a community of like-minded people. I came for the fanfiction, and have stayed for the community, which -- bless them -- produces more fanfiction, which draws in more writers and readers. It's just wonderful.

I hope you'll share your results when you've written this paper. Thank you for asking these questions; I've enjoyed reading other people's responses.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thank you for responding to this--your answers were completely interesting, and a lot of them resonated very strongly with me. Among other things:

I find specious the idea of a connection between slash fiction and slashers; it's just a coincidence in the terms used.

God, me too. I am so sick of academic articles that make a big deal out of that. If it ever meant anything above the most base coincidence, that meaning has long since been diluted down to nothing: I call slash slash 'cause that's what it was called when I got here, seven years ago. I know people who just joined fandom this year, and they also are calling it slash, not because the term expresses the secret inner violence of their souls, but because that's what it's called. Sheesh.

Rarely, I find the source material so perfect that I don't want to read fanfiction (e.g., Firefly).

Hey, me, too! I'm still somewhat stunned about that. And speaking of which, cimorene111 linked me to your "Why Read? Why Write?" essay--would you mind if I quoted from that, too? I'd cite it separately, as an essay, not as part of these interview thingys. And yes, I am going to post the paper when it's done--and hopefully, my professors' responses, when they're done. *g*

[godofwine.livejournal.com]

As I am technically writing my own final write now, I haven't looked back at everyone else's response so I'm sure this is repetitive, but in case you're looking for more participants...I really just want to answer five but I think it addresses the other questions along the way (sorry, am lazy):

This obviously is a gender issue in the larger context as form of expressing feminine subjectivity through a male persona, but I'm skeptical that there is a conscious constituting action. Because (ok, "heterosexual" female here) in writing, in reading, I'm not actively expressing some form of autonomous "freedom" but rather, I often the characters as divorced from their gender roles. I mean, you know, this goes back to the Simone de Beauvoir's Second Sex and the concept of masculinity as identical with humanity. So, ok, because men are identified in generality, they can represent some larger question of humanity without the social (and socially perceived) constraints of being female to complicate the portrayal.

But while this addresses the male issue, I think the nature of sexuality itself is important here. Because, fundamentally, male homosexual sex is something i cannot participate in. It adds another layer to the distance between myself and fantasy. I mean, Hollywood, movies, television, etc. create these men who are not real (real in the sense that I could somehow form a stable, personal relationship with them) but yet who are so familiar to me and who are very attractive. Then, if we pace them in situations where they are forming homosexual relationships, I both satisfy my attraction to the character and acknowledge the impossibility of the return attraction. Because ultimately, the man who becomes romantically involved with character I am attracted is both me and not me in that it's acting as a proxy for who I want to be yet it's ability to be in that position is something I can never be. It's like negative wish fulfillment. On the other hand, if the person was female (aside from the usual bland, stereotypical portrayal of women that lead to uninteresting, linear characters, which goes back to the first point), than it becomes not a fundamental physical barrier to my connection with this character but some sort of "failing" on my part. For example, not pretty enough, not cool enough, etc. Think of it as competition if you will.

(However, I don't want to suggest that this is a worked out rationale. Instead, I think it's some kind of subconscious, I don't know, "self-esteem protector" if you will. But I think it also goes alone with wanting the underdog to win or when the geeky girl gets the guy --I'm thinking randomly of She's All That here.)

In this context, I think fandom then helps normalize something that is a social minority (especially one that carriers a stigma). And it's definitely done within the story universe. So, for example, everyone in Atlantis is gay, not just Rodney and John. But also, fandom justifies the slash position and creates a sense of community.

Anyways, I don't know if that answered your question, but there it is. I'm just glad I'm not writing this paper where I'd then have to talk about how the mentality described above is the manifestation of the specific subjectivity of capitalism (because yes, I've been raised intellectually to always go back to this). Good luck!

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks for taking the time to do this, especially with your own final of DOOM looming. *g* I totally agree with what you said about how much easier it is for one of the male characters to serve as a proxy. And hey, even better, sometimes you can relate to both men (as I do, in different ways, with John and Rodney), and thus experience the relationship doubled, from both ends.

Er, which was not meant to sound dirty. Really.

Anyway, thanks again!

[siria]

Here via metafandom. I'm going to come back and answer your questions when I have time later on, but I just had to say how incredibly amused (read: inhaled my tea and choked on it) I was when you mentioned that Darryl Jones knows about slash. I mean, I knew that the man had written fanfiction, and was possibly vaguely aware of the Harry Potter fandom, but I didn't know he knew about fandom to that extent. The English department is so much cooler than my own; they channel their academic tics and eccentricities in directions that are so much more interesting.

Um. I hope this doesn't come across as too weird or stalkery a comment; it's just so unusual to run across someone who's attended/is attending TCD. And I shall be back to comment later once I have time, and have thought about your questions.

[siria]

20, female, straight. I've been in fandom for a little over three years, starting out in the Jane Austen fandom before migrating to the Harry Potter fandom, with sideward forays into fandoms like the two Stargates and BSG, amongst others.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

Well, I suppose at the heart of it, it's as much about entertainment and escapism as it is with any other book or movie or media form. I also have a tendency to fall heavily in love with a particular universe or scenario or character, so much so that the currently existing canon simply isn't sufficient for me. I want to exist in it longer, explore it more thoroughly. I love reading missing scenes and back stories, things that could have been or might yet be, things that explain away seeming inconsistencies or 'fix' what I wish could never have happened. There's also the joy of seeing what other people think of a particular canon, the inspiration they draw from it and the places they go with it. Fanfiction creates a curious kind of intersection between the way in which two or more people view the same object. I am really interested in seeing how that occurs, in how fanfiction helps create a fanon, or a popular perception of a particular character, or even how it can change people's perceptions of the source material overtime.

Het fic and slash fic (and to a lesser extent, femmeslash) are an extension of that interest in terms of things that I know are never going to be explored in certain source materials. Fanfiction can let a writer explore, say, John Sheppard's past, though there's every possibility that it will be touched on in canon yet (or maybe it already has been; TV episodes here are still behind the US); there's no chance that canon is ever going to feature explicit heterosexual content, or even non-explicit homosexual content.

Slash fic especially is an explicit fantasy on the part of the writer and the reader; it's a given that this is never going to happen, so it allows a freer reign to the fantasy element, in some ways. There is a lot of het and slash fic which is very well-written and plotted and similar to good gen fic in that regard; but there's an awful lot of it which does give free rein to that fantasy aspect. It's like a romance novel in that regard, though perhaps with slightly more of an element of transgressiveness to it because in some respects you are going against what someone has established in a book or movie.

Het and m/m fiction I also enjoy because, well, they're hot. I do read femmeslash, but not an awful lot, because I just don't find the female body sexually attractive. Aesthetically, yes; sexually, no. Erotic and PWP fanfiction are appealing to me because I'm much I see things so much more in text than images. Visual porn is the opposite of erotic for me; fanfiction is the exact opposite. In conclusion: porn, hot; boys, pretty, I guess.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

I'm not entirely sure if I follow what you mean here. Certainly, there is as much of a difference between a gen fic and a het fic and a slash fic as there is between a Mills and Boone novel and a Dorothy L Sayers murder mystery, and you can gain differs accordingly. I think that in fanfiction and fandom as a whole, there is more of a communal element, especially since the fact that I have very few RL friends who are interested in genre books, TV or movies means that I have to consume those things in isolation; my experiences of canon and fanon are accordingly very different. I'm really not sure in what sense I can compare them with my RL, since I do try to keep the two separate. I would say that reading slash and thinking about it has made me re-evaluate my own stance on certain things. I do think much more differently than I did on first entering fandom.

[ex-galadhir.livejournal.com]

OK, personal data: I'm 40, a straight married woman with two children. I started writing fanfiction about 5-6 years ago and have written Star Wars TPM, Tolkien (mostly the Silmarillion), and Pirates of the Caribbean.
Most of what I've written is gen, but recently I've begun writing a long slash romance in the PotC fandom.

1.

I have a tendancy to be fascinated by minor characters in the original material, and wish to see those characters given adventures/elaboration of their own. Genfic is my opportunity to expand on those characters, who were (IMO) clearly undervalued in the source material.

I also like to write fanfic which 'corrects' things that I didn't like in the original. For example, I tend to fall in love with characters who die in the middle of the story. In fanfic I can change that and have them live.

Also, it's less risky than buying a new book. I know I like these characters, it's free and I'm going to enjoy it. I don't have that guarentee with new books. I may not like them, and if I don't, I'll still have had to pay for the experience.

I don't see the distinction between romantic shipper fic and slash.

I write and prefer to read romantic slash. In my case, I find het squicks me. Whether this has to do with power struggles or the objectification of women's bodies, I don't know. I just know that it makes me feel uncomfortable. This means that almost all romantic/sexual relationship type stuff that I see around me on films, TV and in the majority of books makes me feel ill at ease and uncomfortable. Slash doesn't.

In M/M I don't face that discomfort, so I can write about love and romance without the lurking unpleasantness. What I get out of it is presumably the same thing other people get out of het romance, but which I for some reason can't find there.

2.

Hm, I know I prefer slash fic which deals with the same kind of issues and has a similar emphasis on plot, characterization etc as gen, so I don't think my appreciation of gen is a lot different from my appreciation of plotty slashfic. Writing wise, I judge fanfic by the same criteria as I do the source material - I like it to be as good as the original if possible. But what I get from slash I cannot derive from real life because it's just not available anywhere else.

3.

Yes of course writing is a different experience from reading. A fan fiction writer is doing exactly the same thing an original writer is doing. A fan fic reader is reading in the same way a reader of original fic is, though I find I am less forgiving of bad writing in original fic now that I know I can do it better myself.

4.

My specific reason for entering fandom at all was that I wanted to write about the early life of Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn. My reasons for beginning to write slash are a bit more complicated. I'd always found the idea of m/m relationships both arousing and sympathetic, but for a long time I thought I was the only person in the world who felt like that. When I encountered slash it was a vast relief to discover I wasn't actually a solitary wierdo after all, but perhaps I was a normal woman whose normal female sexuality was not even visible let alone being catered to by the larger society.

My discovery of slash fic lead me to rethink my position on the whole issue of gay rights/marriage and homosexuality altogether. If I don't believe that homosexuality is wrong or abhorrent (and I don't) then why is it odd to write m/m romance? Surely it must be just as valid to write m/m romance as it is to write m/f romance? And it has the upside that it doesn't upset or squick me. Quite the opposite, it allows me to see the beauty and the sexiness and the essential rightness of love.

I began in slash because I was wired to find that pleasant. I stay because it's the only place I can really write about love without having to fight myself to do it.

5.

Because it's a part of women's normal sexuality which is not catered to anywhere else in society.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks for responding to this. I'm really glad you brought up expanding on minor characters--I don't think anyone's mentioned that yet.

My discovery of slash fic lead me to rethink my position on the whole issue of gay rights/marriage and homosexuality altogether

Do you mean that prior to discovering slash, you used to be less in favor of gay rights/marriage? Other people have mentioned something to that effect, and if it's true, then slash fandom is even cooler than I thought... *g*

[modillian.livejournal.com]

Um, if you only want individual testimonies, that's fine and you can ignore this, but I really like the_dark_twin's Why I like slash. Tough question, plain answers (http://www.livejournal.com/users/the_dark_twin/2361.html) because it pretty much says everything I've ever considered about my view of slash. Good luck on the paper!

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you so much! That's a terrific essay; I'm so glad you linked to it.

[carodee.livejournal.com]

Female, 47, straight. I first discovered slash in the late '80s and spent about three years obsessively buying zines (Star Trek, both K/S and gen). Then nothing until six years ago when I spent six months reading Buffy het before it occurred to me to search out slash stories. I became "involved" in fandom three years ago, i.e., joining my first mailing list, when I wrote my first fanfic and wanted to post it.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) The warmth and affection I feel spending more time with characters and shows/books I love. There's nothing like coming across a fanfic for a show/book I loved many years ago and realizing that I get to revisit them. However, I have also been introduced to fandoms via fanfic, but even there, I recognize the writers' love for their fandoms. It makes for a completely different experience from pro fic.

b) Romance/sex/pairing up is a human fixation. It's also something that digs deep into who the characters are. Why pair these two up? How do they fit? What circumstances (often dramatic) bring them (finally) together? Are they capable of finding genuine happiness together? Awww. *g*

c) I separate m/m slash fic out from the general run of fanfic. Because for me, m/m is almost not about fandom but about my personal kink for men together. In other words, I'd read it elsewhere if I couldn't get enough in fandom (not a danger, I'm thinking *g*). You can't separate general fanfic from fandom.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

a) I think I answered this above.

b) Source material is often inadequate (even for gen). It hints at the things that draw you in and fanfic goes straight to the meat of the zing, whether it's a kink or a character that draws you. Fanfic gives you more.

c) For fanfic/fandom in general, it's about interesting people having interesting lives without the boring humdrum of RL.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

Reading is passive and external, riding someone else's vision. I'm seeing what someone else loves about these characters, rather than my own reasons. Totally fun and there are times when that's all I want.

Writing is more like fantasizing, except for the bit where you're sweating trying to wrestle it into some condition where what someone else sees in their head is what you meant to convey. In that sense, I'm not writing for myself because I do plenty of story telling in my head (and much of it, Mary Sueing, whether I'm female or male in the fantasy).

Continuation

[carodee.livejournal.com]

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I read for many years without any impulse to write at all. Then one day I was discontentedly thinking that people weren't writing Sentinel sex correctly (heightened senses means a different experience of sex). Before I knew it, I'd started writing my take on it and, as the story grew, I realized it wasn't half bad and the desire to post it in the main archive grew. In a way, it was wanting to give back to a fandom that had given me so much enjoyment. It was only after I posted that I experienced feedback and... Oh my! The good crack. Yes, indeedy.

I stay because it's validating and oh-so-comfortable being with people who share a slash interest. Also because I'm good at writing it and that's beyond satisfying. I think we've all got this little kid in us going, "Look at what I did! Lookit!" To get other people to agree is the tricky and addictive part. *bg*

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

You can't get it anywhere else.

Also, I was slashing in my head before I encountered the concept of slash in Star Trek Lives! well over twenty years ago. So anybody who has that interest can feel like an isolated pervert. Discovering the slash phenomenon and that Other Delightfully Pervy Women share it is such a joyful relief! So I've got a major investment as both a consumer and producer of slash.

[dress-myself-up.livejournal.com]

I haven't finished reading the post yet, but I simply must know - Fuck you, David Fury?

I watched most of Buffy for the first time last year, and thus wasn't participating in the fandom while the show was actually on, for the most part...so I'm really not up-to-speed on popular reactions to pretty much any part of the show (barring the fact that everyone hated seasons 6 and 7).

Sorry for the OT - I'll hopefully get an email off to you with my answers to the above questions later today.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

No, that's totally cool: I can see how that comment would be completely "huh?"-worthy to those not In the Know. (I suspect other people wanted to ask, but then just assumed that I have Tourette's. *eg*)

Basically, David Fury made a comment during...S5, I think, saying that it was disgusting for so many fans to want Buffy and Spike to get together, and that all the Spikefen were like women who wrote to and fell in love with "serial killers in prison." So, uh, that little bit of the lecture brought back a whole load of resentment, because I still think that the circumstances are totally different, the number one difference being that the Buffyverse is a fantasy and Spike is a, to quote the boy himself, "Hello? Vampire." So yeah, that's what that is about.

And don't worry about the OT--I like being answer girl. Especially when I'm the one raising the questions. ;-)

Raised Manholes

[executrix.livejournal.com]

(that's the warning sign posted on my street, they're re-paving).

Have you read Sheenagh Pugh's "The Democratic Genre," (Seren Press 2005), a literary rather than sociological analysis? A must-read (disclaimer: there's an essay by me in the back and I'm heavily cited). And I second the recommendation of cathexys' masterly Metabib.

Apologies to those who have already heard this story, but I love telling it because it wrecks the curves.

I'm 52, female, unmarried, bisexual. I first learned about slash from Joanna Russ' "Pornography For Women, By Women," with love, and first learned about fandom from "Textual Poachers." My first fandom was Blakes7, a show I had heard about but never seen. Jenkins made it sound like a really hot m/m oriented show. Which actually is a way to look at it that more than one person has shared. My current fandom is Firefly.

To me, fandom is inextricably entwined with writing fics (and, to a lesser extent, with doing meta), and ficwriting is a true compulsion. What I'm looking for is credible characters with distinctive voices and, for my own purposes, characters who I find credible being involved in same-sex activities.

Actually I spend more time writing than reading fanfic, but I never cease to be awed by a) how many terrific writers there are in fandom as a whole and b) how many different things we can find within the texts of a fandom.

However, I'm always equally bemused by how batshit nuts fans as a group are, and the amount of venom that can be churned out over the vexed question of which nonexistent person another nonexistent person is fooling around with.

Re: Raised Manholes

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I haven't read The Democratic Genre, and I probably won't have time to for this paper (I'm still researching and I should be writing--yikes!). But it sounds really interesting, and as this project is teaching me that my interest in fandom and slash extends far beyond the recreational and into the academic, I'll definitely look for it (and for your essay--cool!). Thanks for the recommendation, and for the rest of your comments. =)

via metafandom, I think

[marginaliana]

Kudos to you for outing yourself as a slasher for a good cause!

Age: 25
Gender: female
Sexual orientation: bisexual leaning towards lesbian
Entered fandom: fandom in general: 1999 (broadway musical fandom... *cringe*), slash fandom: 2001 (Harry Potter)

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) I was into fanfiction before I knew what it was, like I think we all are. We all read books and wonder "what happened next?" We make up our own stories and insert ourselves as characters and fantasize. It's wish fulfillment/escapism, too. I want to be able to imagine myself somewhere else. I get the excitement of adventure without having to actually be in danger. Also, I DO think there's something to that statement of desire for "more," but that desire is enhanced by fandom more than it creates fandom. Once you start experiencing the fast pace of internet creativity, you get used to having more. So our desire for more creates fandom, but then fandom increases our desire.

b) I think your comparison to romance novels is a good one. I like things in fiction that I really wouldn't want in real life. Specifically, withr egard to the exotic and bizarre sexual activities I've read - exciting to read about, but I wouldn't want to actually do them. Similarly, I enjoy the feeling of "the chase" - getting to know someone, playing "do they like me?" and so on. But in real life? I'm happily involved and wouldn't want to end what I have to get that feeling. Romantic fiction is a way to experience that vicariously without having to sacrifice what you have.

c) slash fic - definitely all about the fiction for me. I think it's partly that no one wants to read someone else's self-insertion fantasy with [sexy male character of choice], so somehow it's more acceptable to make the figure of that self insertion be of the opposite sex. I know it is for me. Plus, I do think it comes down to boys are hot, two boys are hotter. Plus, as a bisexualish lesbian, I don't have the experience of doing any of the things they're doing, so I'm never thrown off by the unreality of it, or by my personal distaste for an activity (whereas I find I dislike femmeslash for those reasons - it's too close to home).

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

Ooh, I didn't plan ahead when writing - this one anticipates some of my answers to question 1. Anyway, to sum up, I'd say that I think fanfiction walks a fine line between reality and fantasy; it's got to be real enough to identify with and unreal enough to a) not identify with the crappy bits of reality and b) be an exciting and different escape from reality. I also enjoy both fanfic that is heavily canon-style and -content, and fanfic that widly departs from canon - it's just a matter of what suits for that particular piece.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

Writing, for me, is primarily a challenge. I've been "writing" fanfic in my head for as long as I've been able to read, but actually writing it down is a fairly recent development and I think is significantly different from reading because it's a lot more work. I definitely do it for different reasons.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

Reasons for entering - it was all over the place! I started reading HP gen and het, then kept seenig HP slash and just couldn't resist. I've never looked back because, well, it's fun!

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

Some combination of:
a) lack of acceptance for authorial self-insertion fic
b) boys=hot, two boys=hotter
c) getting to "experience" something (by being in the mind of the character) that writers and readers otherwise wouldn't be able to feel

Would love to see your essay when finished!

Re: via metafandom, I think

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for responding to this. I am going to post the essay when it's finished; it should be up by Friday, I think, so, uh, check back!

Kudos to you for outing yourself as a slasher for a good cause!

Thanks. It was my pleasure--seriously, it really is turning out to be.

Ooh, and random "Neil!" squee. *g*

[brownbetty]

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) I get to read! No, seriously, I'm a compulsive reader. Fanfic gives me more bang for my buck, everyone's familiar with the characters, less time is wasted on set-up, more is spent on pay-off.
b) Usually, I get to see possibilities explored that weren't explored in canon. Shipper fic isn't really my thing, unless I'm already interested in the characters, so. But when I am interested in the characters, shipper fic often satisfies my, "but I want them to be happy!" urge.
c) Dude, it's hot. Um. More? Well, slash fic gives me an opportunity to strip two characters' interaction of social convention and look at the rawest part of their relationship. Also, it's hot.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

a) Slash fic satisfies my id. Gen fic satisfies my superego.
b) The source material is necessarily constrained by the goal of appealing to the broader audience. Fic really isn't. Also, I read the source and then I wanted *more.* Fic has no limits on growth.
c) I'm not sure I understand this question but uh. Real life is hemmed in by social conventions and manners and the necessity of keeping one's job. Fic isn't. It's a playground.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

Hmm... I think writing... lets me be within the universe I love in a way that reading doesn't. It lets me meaningfully interact with these characters (and not in an icky self-insert way.)

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

It had stories I loved. Many of the stories I really liked were slash stories. I think it's really that simple. The reasons for staying are more social. There are people I'm freinds with, I get the feedback on my stories that I crave, I get to discuss my fannishness with people who speak the same language.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

Something to do with empowering women's sexuality? Everyone's reasons are different, that's just a guess.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks for responding to this. And especially for:

Slash fic satisfies my id. Gen fic satisfies my superego.

...which is an excellent and interesting way to put it. I like.

[aruja.livejournal.com]

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

I'm going to answer this as a whole instead of the parts because its much easier to discribe that way. The reason I'm drawn to, read, and write fanfic regardless of what form, is because I much too easily form deep connections to characters and even whole book/anime/movieverseseven if they are from really bad books/movies/shows. and I'm picky really really picky. what better to read for a picky person than a world and characters I already know I love?
m/m tendancies?
1. I tend to find the men in stories to have a more drawing/interesting/attractive personality than a LOT of female characters. I tend to find girls in alot of thinks to be weepy, posessive, winey, or when theyre strong, they're strong in very cliched ways. so enjoying women in stories is really not an option for me.
2. I tend to like to know about men more because growing up and even now, I have never had a relationship with a guy in which he came closer than an arm length away from me, and the only one that did was really gay. so maybe it is because I have never really been close enough to get the feel of a straight guy, I dunno, maybe I'm overanalyzing it.(has been reading psycological texts recently)

that and two boys together is just teh hot. until I started being over analytical, I would have said. I have no idea I have always liked boys together, I have no idea when I started. but I fell in love when I found it online


2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

I am really not sure how to answer this question...

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

I am a writer, reader, and artist. I often find that writing is much harder than reading and art but it dosen't really come natural to me at all. I really have to work hard for my writing to be worth reading at all. but drawing comes natural to me. I could never go a day without drawing from my fandoms, it just flows out

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I believe this is explained in the answer to question one. I find reading alot of different books, kinda makes me feel like my brain is going to explode with all of the love for all of the characters and worlds, so reading fics on a few different things makes me so much more comfortable. no brain pain anymore

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

I could not even begin to speculate... sorry


are you going to post this? it sounds really interesting.
~amerin

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for responding! I am going to post the finished product (assuming there is one...gulp); it should be up on or around Friday, so check back! And thanks again!

[indywind]

Hi!
I can't add all that much that hasn't been said before, so shan't bother being repetitive (though if you need answers to count for statistical purposes, I could be coerced).

A little swerve into my POV, though:

I read slash, and all other sorts of fanfiction, as a subset of the sort of fiction I like, which is character-driven, emotionally nuanced, playing with social/sexual/emotional boundaries. Detail-oriented worldbuilding (which shows in fanfic as fannish attention/obsession with canoncal detail) is another draw. This stuff is available in mainstream literature, but it takes a helluva lot of wading through dead trees to find desirable quality in sufficient quantity.
Fanfic concentrates the aspects of literature I most enjoy, more per story.
The fannish community concentrates those kinds of stories and authors, more in one place, easy to find.
Not all fandoms are equally useful like this; the larger ones have a higher proportion of stuff I wouldn't pick up if it were on the shelf in a bookstore, than actual bookstores do. But where I stumble across a fandom that's dense with writing of the sort I prefer, I work from there, following reccers or writers whose tastes seem like mine into other fandoms; I'd be equally glad to follow them into original writing.

I read gen, het, slash, and poly fic. What I've written above should suggest I prefer the ones that don't fit tidily into "gay" or "straight" categories.

FYI, 26, female, queer, poly (1 ltr right now ::snugs the grrl:: and a couple boys on the side), kinky, BA in humanities, employed as clerical assistant in academia. poor white trash.

oh, I'm primarily reading (and trying to work up to writing) in Due South and Firefly/Serenity, with occasional forays into Sentinel. Started on ST:TOS, TNG, DS9 as a kid. & stuff.

anything else you want to know, just ask.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks for responding! I'm especially glad you mentioned world-building--that's an important point that I don't think anyone else has brought up. And boy, do I wish I were being scientific enough about this to worry about statistical purposes... ;-)

[zoerayne]

Feel free to use my pseud (Zoë Rayne) if you want to cite anything I say in specific.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) An opportunity to explore a universe I find interesting in a way that the original creators either won't or don't have the time and/or resources to do. This exploration can take many forms, from "what if" (e.g., an alternate universe or alternate reality) to an extension of canon events that the source material fails to follow up on (e.g., a "tag" story for a specific episode).

b) Pretty much the same as a), but with the potential addition of romantic and/or erotic content and explorations thereof.

c) Pretty much the same as a), but with the potential addition of romantic and/or erotic content and explorations thereof.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

a) I get pretty much the same thing from all three, though there are times when I'm specifically looking for the erotic content or the emotional connection of slash.

b) The source material is limited by a huge variety of factors that range from budgetary constraints to studio influence to public opinion (e.g., ratings, advertiser boycotts, etc.). Fanfiction isn't limited by those factors, leaving readers and writers free to explore any and all aspects of the universe.

c) Real life is even more limited than the source material. *g* Fanfiction can be, like many other forms of entertainment, an escapist fantasy.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

I write out of a...compulsion, for lack of a better word...to share the vision in my head with other people; reading fanfic is a much more passive experience, wherein a let the author take me on a trip. I read because I want to, but I write because I have to.

Vidding is nearly the same, though I don't feel the same sense of urgency when I get a vid idea that I do when I get a story idea.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I got into slash fandom because I found m/m erotica arousing, especially when it was about characters that I felt some attraction to, or some connection with. I stuck around because I found a community of people who were interested in the same things I was interested in.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

I tend to lean toward Henry Jenkins's assertion that fanfic is the modern version of telling folk tales around the fire. Slash is a shared exploration of female sexuality in a way that we haven't been allowed to explore it in the past. No one asks why guys like porn featuring two women; it's just an accepted fact, and it's catered to by the establishment in a way that "Normal Female Interest in Men Bonking" has never been.

If you want to provide info about age, gender, sexual preference, when you entered fandom or how long you've been in it, it would be interesting and useful, but obviously, I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

Age: 36
Sex: F
Sexual preference: I self-identify as bisexual. I'm about a 2 on the Kinsey scale.
Entered fandom: I've always been a media fan. My parents are media fans and I was raised within that culture, including attending actor cons, etc.
Entered slash fandom: 1996.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thanks for responding to this. I totally know what you mean about writing because you have to: I feel your pain there--and, I think, your joy. *g*