Rite of Passage

[trinityofone]

There comes a time in every young fangirl's life when, should she still reside amongst the chalk-dust lecture halls and book-dust libraries of academia, she must pick up the mantle and write an academic paper about slash. And for me, brothers and sisters (mostly sisters), that time has come.

Basically what happened was this: my popular literature class had a guest lecturer, Prof. McCarthy. She was giving a talk on Poppy Z. Brite's Exquisite Corpse (which, embarrassingly, I still have not been able to find), and in doing so, she talked about serial killers in both history and literature, and provided us with some great quotes. (One of my favorites, Paul Anthony Woods on Norman Bates: "He registers in our hearts as one of the most loveable sickos of pop culture.") Then she showed us selected postings from the Yahoo!Group JeffreyDahmerClub. If you click on the link, which I do NOT recommend, you'll see some of what she showed us: people (mostly women) talking about how much they love Jeffrey Dahmer, how they feel he was just misunderstood, how hot he is--all very serious and earnest. I was, needless to say, disturbed by this. Especially because one of the first thoughts that entered my mind was: "Jesus, these people must've been on Yahoo!Groups talking about their love for a serial killer at the exact same time I, fresh-faced and 17, was there posting about my love for Spike."

...At which point I would like to take a time out and say: Fuck you, David Fury.

But ANYWAY...just then Prof. McCarthy said something about how both serial killers and their fans exhibit an "obsessive and insatiable" need for more, more, more. And then she brought up slash.

Slash readers and writers--the term was of course defined for the giggling audience, with the inevitable Kirk/Spock example and an increase in giggling--exhibit, said McCarthy, the same need for more of their chosen type of media: more story, more sexual tension, more sex. Brite, not a slash fan, has bemoaned the fact that while "real" writers will work hard to "create real, complex, multidimensional characters with lives that need no 'improvement' by the peanut gallery, all some readers really want is for [the characters] to fall into a huge rutting jizz-drenched scrum" (Fan Nine from Outer Space). Prof. McCarthy didn't specifically disagree with Brite; mostly she just drew the obvious connections between sex and violence, making, IMO, rather too big a deal about the possible violent connotations of the word "slash." I really wasn't quite sure what she was trying to say, actually; but more than that, I was disturbed that my mind had made the leap from Jeffrey Dahmer fandom to our fandom first, and without being prompted.

After the lecture, there was a question and answer period. I debated whether I should say anything--I didn't want to "out" myself to a room full of strangers, and I wasn't sure how to neutrally phrase a question, or even what I wanted to ask. Finally, I raised my hand and mumbled something about how, while I definitely saw the connection between obsessive-compulsive, insatiable behaviour and slash fandom, didn't Prof. McCarthy think it might have less to do with violence, and more to do with (here I stumbled, wanting to say--I think--love) romance novels? You know, the type little old ladies check out from the library, the type with Fabio on the cover? Prof. McCarthy conceded that this might be so. Class dismissed.

I left unsatisfied. I thought about just going home and writing a bitchy, dismissive post about how we are NOT like that. Yet I was still bothered by the fact that my brain had made the connection first. And what are we, if not obsessive and insatiable? What does that make us--serial readers? Serial writers? Why do we do what we do?

So I went to Dr. Jones' office hours and outed myself as a slasher.

The meeting began less than promisingly, as he greeted me by saying, "Aren't you the student that asked the question about Fabio?" I admitted that I was, and that yes, I am from Berkeley, and that yes (feeling quite the stereotype), I would like to talk more about the gay porn, please.

Dr. Jones said he was "fascinated by this phenomenon known as 'slash.'" I said I was quite an expert, but that the lecture that morning had made me think about why we did it--why I did it. One of our class' essay titles is "Write an essay on why you think formulaic writing is so popular"--could I, I inquired, write an essay about slash?

His response was enthusiastic. Very enthusiastic. Did I mention that I rather adore him? I do, I do.

Anyway, he introduced me to Prof. Silver, whom he called "the university's resident slash expert." Unfortunately, this is not an actual tenured position--too bad, 'cause nice as Prof. Silver was, I could totally have beaten her out for it. She really didn't know much about internet fandom at all, but she gave me a great book--Constance Penley's NASA/TREK, which I highly recommend, despite the fact that it's old and thus deals mostly with 'zines--and even better, a lot of encouragement. In return, I gave her links to some classic fandom stuff--she'd never heard of the Very Secret Diaries! *gasp*--and, when pressed, some of my own stories. (Yikes!) When I come out, I come out hard--bringing the clothes, the hangers, and the dust bunnies with me.

So now--

The short version: I now have just over a weak to write a paper about Why We Slash. I think I can pull together the more academic, sociological sources, but for the rest, I need your help. I want this paper to be different from other writings about slash and fandom: I'm not going to distance myself; rather, I'm going to get permission to write in the first person and include myself in the analysis. I don't want to be yet another judgmental outsider looking in (or down) on "this phenomenon known as slash"; I'm a part of it, I'm not going to deny it, and that gives me a unique perspective.

But I need other people's perspectives--other people's insights--too. So, fellow fandom folks: if you could take the time to answer the following questions, I would be deeply appreciative.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

If you want to provide info about age, gender, sexual preference, when you entered fandom or how long you've been in it, it would be interesting and useful, but obviously, I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable. With that in mind, anyone who'd prefer to take this out of a public forum can also e-mail me at kaufmaa@tcd.ie . You can also comment anonymously, though I'd appreciate it if you could provide me with some sort of alias in case I choose to quote you.

With that in mind: unless you tell me otherwise, any quotes I pull will be attributed to your LJ username (minus the LJ distinction, of course.) So if I were quoting myself, I might say: "'I'm in it for the porn, baby!' said one writer, trinityofone. 'Porn, porn, porn--that's what the internet is for!'"* If you'd prefer to be quoted under a different name, just tell me what it is. But don't get too panicky: this paper will most likely be seen by no one other than Dr. Jones, Prof. McCarthy, Prof. Silver, and myself. And we're all very discreet. ;-)

Finally, PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD. Which is to say: the red light is on, I have multiple varieties of condoms (some are flavored!), but right now I'm all by my lonesome, so I need you to pimp, pimp, pimp. Also, if anyone knows of any communities where I might be able to rustle up some participants, that'd be fab.

So in conclusion: let me know if you have any questions, and thanks in advance!

*Actually, I read slash for the articles. 'The' is a good one; so's 'a.' ...And after that display of dorkery, we're all going to pretend this footnote doesn't exist.

Comments

[darkhavens.livejournal.com]

(Wow, I went on for quite a while here - this is going to take three comments to post. *boggles* I apologise in advance for my verbal diarrhoea.)

First, the intro. I'm darkhavens - English, female, 35, divorced, no kids, happily single. I've always written, from when I was still in single digits to the present day, to the extent that, when I informed my mother of my new 'hobby', she announced that she'd always expected me to be making a living by now writing 'regular porn'. I love that woman. *g*

I discovered slash fanfiction by accident, just over 2 years ago, after helping beta an online friend's HP Lucius Malfoy/mary-sue D/s fic. I'd never read any fanfic before and, being bored now she'd completed her story, I did a search at LJ and noticed the plethora of Buffy links. Several clicks later, I stumbled across one that led to a Spike/Xander story, and once I'd finished laughing myself sick at the impossible idea of those two being paired off, I clicked through and started reading. By chapter two I was hooked. By chapter three I was in tears and pimping it to my BF online and that was it - we were both slash hos from that moment on.

Six days later I started writing, not only because, well, how could I not, but also because I was going away to visit family and friends and the thought of being separated from 'my boys' for that long was unthinkable. Luckily, BF pointed out that I liked to write, so why not write my boys? I scribbled frantically on the train, both journeys, and for several hours each night after I'd gone to bed. I was hooked.

1a. I don't tend to read gen fic at all. If I were to read gen as well as my particular flavour(s) of slash I'd never have time to write it. And,frankly, if my boys aren't together, or getting together, in the fic it doesn't really appeal to me at all. I'm very focussed. *g*

But what I get out of fanfiction in general is the joy of seeing the characters I love get into, and out of, situations the shows could never get away with broadcasting, and I don't mean only sexually. In fanfiction you can have the characters use realistic language and not the toned down 'aw shucks' stuff that the censors don't choke on. You can hurt the characters more than they can in the show, and have them suffer the consequences of their actions much more than TV ever seems to be willing to show. And of course, the graphic sex is more than just a bonus. ;)

1b/c. I used to read a lot of het romance novels before my great discovery - Silhouettes, Harlequins etc but not Mills & Boon. The women in the American pulp romances always seemed to have more balls than the ones in the M&B books.

Though the romance in slash is, for obvious reasons, quite different from the stuff I used to read, it nevertheless draws me in just as deeply, if not deeper. I was always more focussed on the guy than the gal, and now I get double the guy-ness in every single story.

And then there's the mental pictures that good fic tends to generate. They always put a smile on my face and a skip in my pulse. Well-written slash turns me on, even the non-graphic stuff. When John drags his thumb over that crooked twist in Rodney's lips, my knees go weak.

[darkhavens.livejournal.com]

2a/b. Though both of my fandoms are chock full of snark and vampires (of one kind or another), I do get different things from them both. I didn't get into slash until Buffy had already finished, so I essentially entered a closed-canon fandom and had every detail and fact that would ever exist in that universe right there at my fingertips via the internet. I could pick a point in canon and spin a story off it, or I could ask online for the number of times that Xander was instrumental in saving the world and have an answer returned in minutes and that was final - it wasn't suddenly going to change next week or next month.

Now I'm into Stargate Atlantis and I'm experiencing a fandom that's a roiling mass of constantly changing canon, fanon and assumptions. Nobody knows much of anything of John Sheppard's background, so everyone is free to create that for themselves, pretty much secure in the knowledge that whatever they come up with is going to be Jossed.

I'm reading episode reviews and meta and opinions and episode tag fics that 'fix' whatever the show screwed up in the latest episode - something I never got to do in Buffy because I was years too late for all of that. I get to join in all the 'OMG! I can't believe they did that!' chatter about how Rodney gave us the 'Oh no! My boyfriend's dead!' face again.

Now I can watch the 'source material' and then go and read people's reactions and their fic responses and I have fic running practically 24/7 in my head, most of which will never be seen because I either don't have the time to write it down or it's too ephemeral and vague to work in textual form. The episodes provide impetus for the fic - new canon, new hints of John/Rodney closeness, new worlds, literally, where they might come together/be dragged apart/be hurt or need to comfort.

The show provides 45 minutes of entertainment and a few choice frames that hint of darker depths to our characters if we're lucky, and the fanfic gets to plumb those depths, make the characters work through the consequences of blowing up 5/6ths of a solar system and losing the trust of your best friend and earning it back. The fanfiction lets us decompress those 5 whole minutes Rodney was suffering withdrawal symptoms while coming off the Wraith enzyme and make him fight the hunger in his veins for one more hit, one more chance to feel that immensely satisfying godlike buzz, even though he knows how bad the stuff is for him.

Fanfic can go deeper, darker and for longer because it's not limited to 45 minutes of prime time with a dozen people waiting to jump on every 'fuck' or gory death. We do what the shows' writers only wish they could do with their characters. ;)

2c. Real life for me means a small farming town. The chances of finding a like-minded individual with whom I can talk slash are, at best, infinitesimal. I make no secret of what my 'hobby' is, but as yet I've not had anyone turn around and express a similar interest. If I want to talk slash, be it fandom-based or just sharing the enjoyment of seeing two pretty boys going at each other, the internet is the only real forum.

[darkhavens.livejournal.com]

3. I love to read, but the urge to write is never far from the surface. I wrote for several months before actually posting anything online, and only then because BF is such a nag. And I got feedback. Feedback from writers I'd been reading now for months and worshipping slavishly. These gods of my new universe were suddenly emailing me to tell me how much they'd enjoyed my work. That rocked my world.

I read fanfic to see what adventures and emotional rollercoasters others can send my boys on. I write fanfic to share the adventures and emotional rollercoasters my boys go on inside my head, and also for the reward of knowing that others are reading and following along at every turn.

Feedback is a bonus, but if the only way I knew that I was being read was the counter at the bottom of the page on my website, that would be enough. People are reading and enjoying my work, and that amazes me.

4. I stumbled onto slash fiction in the Buffy fandom by accident - an LJ search brought on by boredom. I fell in love with the Spike/Xander pairing immediately. I truly believe that if I'd started reading another pairing I would never have entered fandom and my life would be much emptier. I have made so many friends, both online and in real life, as a direct result of getting involved in slash fandom.

I stay because there are so many stories still to be told and read and shared with fellow fen. And because now I'm in a new fandom, the canon just keeps on coming! And also because, dammit, I have fans! (*is grinning inanely*)

5. So, I guess you left the hardest question till last, huh? Where to start?

What makes slash work for me is getting to see m/m intimacy. Not just the sex (though, yeah, that can be damn fine), but also the emotional intimacy. In slash we get to see men wrestle with their emotions, needs and desires. We get to see what they're thinking/feeling/repressing and then we get to see them trying to connect with another man who's probably going through exactly the same emotional wringer.

And it really doesn't matter that it's written (mostly) by women for (mostly) women and bears no resemblance to 'real gay life'. It fills a need that women have only recently been allowed to acknowledge.

For centuries (millenia?) it has been accepted that men will enjoy watching two women having sex. Take a look at practically any 'straight' porn and you will find the (almost) obligatory lesbian scene(s) - because the porn is produced with for a straight male target audience.

Women, in general, are more stimulated by the written word, the potential of the words. They have the imaginations to paint their own porn on the backs of their eyelids where as men tend to need the actual visual images to get off.

Women are more cerebral about it - for us, the greatest sex organ is the brain. So, while we might enjoy watching some of the less atrocious gay porn that's out there on the web, we get more fulfilment from reading not just the physical descriptions of guys getting off with guys, but also reading about their emotional turmoil and their insecurities and worries, about how they finally make that connection and become intimate.

PWPs have their place, of course, because sometimes you just want a quick, hot fuck, but then that's true of life too. Sometimes you want to shag, sometimes you want to make love.

To sum up (finally!), I think slash is the phenomena it is because women are finally getting to stand up and say 'Seeing two guys get off together is hot!', just as men have been saying since time immemorial, 'Lesbians? Can I watch?'

Phew, I'm done. :D

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this; it was great. This:

And I got feedback. Feedback from writers I'd been reading now for months and worshipping slavishly. These gods of my new universe were suddenly emailing me to tell me how much they'd enjoyed my work. That rocked my world.

...is a really important point that no one's really made yet, which as a bonus, you make really well. ;-) (Second bonus: I know utterly what you're talking about--I've gotten, for example, three pieces of feedback (yes, I have a mental tally! *shame*) from astolat, and each one is like a golden magic piece of feedback; I think the only thing that would make me happier is if Neil Gaiman or Joss Whedon dropped me a note to say, "Hey, your stuff's all right." So yes, total agreement and empathy. *g*)

Well-written slash turns me on, even the non-graphic stuff. When John drags his thumb over that crooked twist in Rodney's lips, my knees go weak.

Uh, my knees just went weak a little. *vbg* This is the best research ever.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) Fanfiction in general: more of characters and world I love, the opportunity to correct canonical choices I dislike, or simply a "road not taken" sense of infinite branching possibilities in the fictional universe, instead of one linear narrative.

b) Shipper fic: relationship dynamics that I am thematically (and emotionally, and sexually) preoccupied with, in this case, messy pasts, estrangement, forgiveness or lack thereof, how to build a new relationship from the ashes of the old, guilt, dark twins/mirrors/unacknowledged kinship between antagonists, and the experience of discovering what, at bottom, is "enough" for each character by making them make hard choices. The latter doesn't *have* to be shipper fic, but I find it usually is.

c) Slash -- not, I think, much that is substantially different from b), but that is an artefact of *which* pairings I choose to ship. They are primarily m/m, because those are the canonical relationships that are most often set up with that kind of simmering anger/subtextual attraction/reluctant sympathy/jockeying for power type dynamic that attracts me, but I get the same charge from the several het and one f/f pairing that I am interested in.

Since I am a het-leaning bi woman, there is the simple math aspect of two hot guys = twice the fun, and it is also fun to both sidestep the gender politics -- especially with things like BDSM, where submissive status and/or physical fighting can become very fraught -- and complicate the relationship because those socially reified roles are not there to step into and characters must discover for themselves, and negotiate with each other, each step of the way.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

a) Not much, see above. The primary difference is in what relationship dynamics canon gives me to work with. I don't read much purely gen fic, and when I do, it is *still* primarily relationship focused, it is just that the relationships are not sexualized.

b) the source material tends to prolong these dynamics almost indefinitely without resolving them, and especially without acknowledging the sexual aspect beyond joking, particularly in the case of m/m slash. Partly this is real world politics -- it was pushing the envelope for Joss to put a pair of lesbians on a hit show. For him to make his title hero bi in a show that was already on the bubble would have torn the envelope to shreds, so we only get nods and winks and DVD commentary. But part of it, I think, is the Moonlighting effect -- resolution ends the dramatic tension that keeps people tuning in. They want the wanting, often, more than the having. Fanfiction, on the other hand, is a bunch of tiny self-contained worlds like so many soap bubbles -- we can resolve each relationship a thousand times and still have the baseline yearning of canon to come back to.

c) Real life is a lot less neat, and much more risk averse, and healing after trauma takes long, boring years in therapy, instead of acting out our feelings in a cathartic bout of show-don't-tell. It would be impractical for me to cram this much high drama into my own life, and voyeuristic in an ugly way for me to take pleasure in it in other people's -- not to mention that most of the best bits would be private and inaccessible to my gaze. Fiction, fan and otherwise, is where I get the emo fix which my even-keeled life does not provide -- and which, when my life does provide, I try to damp in the name of civiilized behavior and no psychodrama.

TBC

continued from previous comment

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare?

Definitely different. I'll write a much wider range of characters, pairings, and plots than I seek out to read, especially by request. It's more about the challenge -- catching the authentic recognizeable voice, first, and coaxing it into a new story without breaking the continuity of suspension of disbelief, second. The more unlikely the plot versus canon, the more spot-on flavor is needed to preserve that sense of buy-in. It's also a chance to privilege those canonical themes which resonated most with me, and -- without discarding them -- put a gloss on those I found troubling which renders them more sensical or acceptable to me. The writerly high is to evoke a strong reaction in a reader, the readerly high, to have the specific reaction I want to experience evoked.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

My original (het) fannish pairing was first abundantly supplied and then taken in a troubling direction by canon, making my fic and many others' first unneccessary and then both less attractive and more difficult. A real life friend who was a slasher in another pairing (and, previously, in another fandom) had introduced me to LJ, where I met through her and others an assortment of people who were thoughtful readers and good writers in a variety of pairings, including slash. I found one that moved me just as strongly as my het pairing, if not more so, with less canonical complication, and that has been my primary affinity ever since, though others have waxed and waned. I stick around because nothing else I've found is as pure a distillation of the dynamics that interest me as those two, and I'm not tired of it yet.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

I think the continuing work of feminism and birth control have made female sexual autonomy ever more thinkable; the Internet, with its quasi-anonymity and reduction of geographic factors, had made sexual content of all kinds more accessible; the text-based nature of fanfic has made it a more attractive vehicle for female sexual fantasies than, say, photographs (not that there aren't female fan artists, or male fanfic slashers, or that slash didn't exist before the internet, but the vast majority of slash fandom these days is an online, predominantly female, predominantly text-based community.) Also, the idea of looking for hidden romance within more "masculine" -- action adventure and science-based genres -- is an easier jump for girls used to identifying with male protagonists than with men who were, most of them, still raised to avoid the stigma of girl books and girl toys.

There is also a sense in which fanfic is porn without the troubling ethical questions -- a way that women can experience the fun of being a sexual subject with sexual objects without either distancing ourselves from another set of women and becoming "honorary guys" or subjecting guys to a stance they may find threatening or that we may ourselves have not enjoyed.

Or at least, with a different set of ethical issues. There is copyright and RPS and chan and rape fantasy to argue about, but we are at least spared the issue of human trafficking and underage actors and drugs and the possibility of unfree consent and exploitation.

Re: continued from previous comment

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for this thoughtful and articulate response! Of everyone, you've struck closest to the core of what (I think--I haven't actually written it yet) my thesis is; basically what you say here:

Fanfiction, on the other hand, is a bunch of tiny self-contained worlds like so many soap bubbles -- we can resolve each relationship a thousand times and still have the baseline yearning of canon to come back to.

That set off a whole bunch of eager bobble-headed nodding on my part. *g*

My original (het) fannish pairing was first abundantly supplied and then taken in a troubling direction by canon, making my fic and many others' first unneccessary and then both less attractive and more difficult.

Spuffy, by chance? ;-)

[weird-one.livejournal.com]

I'm a 23 yr old chick and I've always enjoyed telling about how I got into fandom. When I was 13 I got into the Star Wars novels, I even used to write stories based off those characters in my head (only one of those stories ever made it onto paper and that didn't get finished). When I was 16 my friends dragged me onto the internet and I discovered TheForce.net and it's bulletin boards. I was inevitably drawn to the fanfic forum and from there I gradually spread out into other fandoms I'd watched or read in. When I was 17 I discover slash on ff.net (guys, having sex with guys! who'd have thought?)and branched out into even more fandoms.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic;
b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a. I have a hard time finding published novels that I want to read. I've looked for books to read but most times the plot or theme doesn't grab me, or the characters don't speak to me and get me interested in reading that book. With fanfiction in general I already have characters I know I enjoy and with the multitude of fandoms I'm interested in and the breadth of stories there are I rarely if ever have trouble finding something I'm interested in reading.

b. I enjoy romance stories because I like to watch/read about two people trying to build a life together and learn to work together as couple. You could say that's one of my fic kinks. It can be an insight to relationships that you never really see unless you're in that relationship.

c. Well first off I find reading about het sex to be extremely boring but reading about m/m sex is decidedly not boring. Reading m/m sex is almost always interesting, in part because it's completely outside my experience and always will be. The other big thing is most of the time the characters I enjoy the most from the source material are guys.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

Ack, I don't think I can answer this question very well. Ummm ...
a. I don't think it differs much because what it comes down to is reading about things I find interesting. b. The only way that comes to mind is that with fic you can take things in all sorts of directions that never happened in the source material. c. Fic allows people to explore things and sides of themselves that you rarely have the opportunity to do in Real Life.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

3.N/A

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

4.I entered slash fandom because these characters, these guys, were the characters I'd enjoyed, related to from the source material. For the most part female characters in tv and print are two demensional compared to real women and so the menfolk were the ones the drew my attention. I stay in fandom because there are new stories posted everyday that are about the characters I care about and have storylines that are well written and interesting.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

5. There are as many reasons people flock to slash as there are fandoms on the internet. It's different for each individual. It can be empowering for some people to be the ones in control of the men for a change. Fandom is mostly made up of women (with a sprinkling of gay men throughout) and it can feel good to have something just for yourself. For some reading about and imagining two guys together is a turn-on. And those are just the few reasons that spring to mind immediately.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I'm a 23 yr old chick and I've always enjoyed telling about how I got into fandom

I'm discovering that I really enjoy listening to people talk about it! Thanks so much for your response!

[dessieoctavia.livejournal.com]

OK, vital stats first: I'm 35, gay, and have been reading and writing fanfic for 6 years now.

1. I love fanfiction - not just the fic itself, but also the mls and comms - because of the way I experience fiction. Mundanes will watch a movie and enjoy it and get on with their lives. We daydream about it, analyze it, speculate on different interpretations and possibilities.

That covers a) and b). As for c), I've found a couple of slash fandoms that help me work through my own issues with being gay and with life in general.

2. a) It doesn't differ, for me. If I 'ship a m/f couple, they have some kind of dynamic I identify with, including things that keep them apart as dealing with homosexuality can keep gay couples apart.

b) The source material is sometimes incomplete. You want to see the characters get together, which they don't in canon. Or you can see myriad possible interpretations and want to play with them.

c) Real life is an interruption of my slash habit.

3. Reading other people's fic just feeds my fannish musings. It also often inspires new fics for me; I'll think, "That was an interesting angle. Now, what if we went further with that...."

4. I entered fandom because I became obsessed with the movie Sleepy Hollow and needed MORE; I needed to discuss it, and I needed to watch the characters do more stuff. I didn't really know about fandom before that, or I would've joined sooner. I paid particular attention to the slash angle because I'm gay. I've stayed because I can't achieve escape velocity; fen are the only other people who understand the way I experience fiction; mundanes just give me odd looks. "What do you mean, you bought the Jeff Goldblum version of Sleepy Hollow? I thought it was the Johnny Depp one that you liked." "Well, I think the screenwriter was actually influenced by this version, because of the following story elements...." "..."

5. There's a lot of reasons, but for a lot of slash fen, I think slash is a kind of idealized romance - for straight fans, a same-sex romance doesn't have the same issues their RL ones do. It aids the suspension of disbelief.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

Real life is an interruption of my slash habit.

Hee. Thanks so much for your response, and for making me smile with that.

(Also: there's a Jeff Goldblum version of Sleepy Hollow?!)

[dessieoctavia.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. (http://imdb.com/title/tt0079453/) There's usually some videotapes of it for sale on ebay. ;-)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_tehshush_/]

1.
a) Fanfiction sorta satisfies my "what if?" craving that I think everyone has. I'll see something and then ask myself what if it happened differently, and I think fanfiction is how we answer that question.
b) To be blunt, I read them instead of going out and getting a partner because I'm a wimp and too afraid, but te characters will always be there and always seem lovey-dovey... so I don't feel worried aout love because they love each other.
c) Slash has more appeal to me, it's different... almost untouchable in a way. I think the fact that it's such a difficult life, being gay or bi, and the fact that the characters end up with true love is more attractive, they have so many obstacles to overcome and do so... het relationships just aren't the same.


2.
a) People read fanfiction for a variety of different reasons, and I am no exception to reading a little of everything. ...difficult question, I can't think of another way to answer.
b) Source material? Do you mean the original story/movie/other that the fandom is from? Fanfiction is purposely made to be different from the fandom because it's the fan's way of changing everything to answer their "what if?" They can change it in a number of ways and most end up so far from the original that it's hard to understand what the fan was trying to accomplish.
c) Fanfiction, as I mentioned with the romance question earlier, is our way of filling the void in our life. We feel inadequate, we want something out of life and cannot achieve something and thus we write about our characters doing so. We can't get a date? Write smut. We can't win a tournament? Write about a character overcoming obstacles and winning. Etc.


3.
Definitely! Writing expresses what you want out of life and that's not necessarily what others also want. Writing sort of gets all your feelings, expresses what you think and why you think it and when you read someone else's writing it's almost as if you can feel what they feel and think what they're thinking... it's almost like you are the author, the one frustrated and eager to release all their emotions... *shrugs* Though it may be different for everyone, that is how I feel...


4.
I came upon slash by accident, but I had experienced a few gay kisses and wanted to know more about the taboo subject, so I read on. I was young, so I fell into the Mary Sue trap and I was the classic amateur writer. It was only when I realized I should read more so my abilities could become better and I soon became a read-only fan because there were so many different "what if?"s out there and so many beautiufl ways to express thoughts and feelings through writing. I became addicted to the feelings I got when reading.


5.
To be honest, I think females in our day an age become soft when they see two people who love each other so much they would risk anything. We admire the traits we wish our boyfriends and husbands would have, but don't... however, these slash fanfics show men and women overcoming obstacles, both depressing and anger-filled, and do their best to stay true to the one they love and in the end there is that warm fuzzy feeling you get when it all ends right. I believe women wish that they could have a similar relationship, one in which the world is topsy turvy but they still have true love... but end up having a normal world and a normal (boring) guy to match... they feel like they're missing something and fanfiction fills in this missing something.


Went into fandom around 7th grade, am still in it. I am also female and consider myself bisexual.

Hope the paper turns out alright.

[trinityofone.livejournal.com]

I believe women wish that they could have a similar relationship, one in which the world is topsy turvy but they still have true love... but end up having a normal world and a normal (boring) guy to match...

NOOOOOO! I'm going to end up in an extraordinary relationship! And I'm gonna discover the wardrobe to Narnia, and teach my pet pig to pilot an F-14. *nods* Yup. Right after I finish this paper.

(...Which is to say, yes, fanfiction is the best form of denial ever.)

Thank you for responding to this; I really appreciate it.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

30 years old, female, married, straight mostly.

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) the ability to explore aspects of the canon that were not explored fully in canon-- possible alternate endings, deeper looks at relationships, alternate universe stories that let us look at the canon characters from an entirely different perspective

b) I have always loved romance-- I was making up the equivalent of romance stories for my stuffed animals in my very early memories-- but generally find the tropes of 'classic' romance novels boring and repetitive. Romantically-inclined fanfiction (by authors I like!) breaks out of those boxes.

c) I very much enjoy interactions between men-- 'boys' stories' as it were-- and find male/male sexual interaction very sexually appealing.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

a) It's all a part of the same continuum for me-- I don't just read m/m, or fanfiction, or whatever.

b) The best of what I read differs just enough from the source material to keep my interest, while holding true enough to the canon characters to feel familiar. It's like a mental game-- there's a certain tension between what everyone knows is there and what might be.

c) I read fanfiction for the same reasons I read standard fiction; for catharsis, for enjoyment, for emotional highs and lows and a chance to explore lives that I can't live for myself (and often wouldn't want to).

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

I enjoy the creation-- being the one to put my own spin on the characters, the setup, the subtext. And I enjoy very much getting feedback and commentary from my readers.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

Fandom was because I was geograpically and socially isolated and wanted people I could talk about my favorite things with. Slash came later, and I'll admit, half the reason I came into that fandom was because I found the stories arousing. But I stayed for the excellent writers and people I found, many of whom became good friends.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

Because there's nothing in our cuture that fills that need-- alternative sexuality is rarely aknowledged, much less embraced. And the female-dominant bent of slash means it's a place for female sexuality to be accepted as well.

Feel free to email me if you have more questions!

[jonathlee.livejournal.com]

Hi, I'm a 21-year-old, gay male -- interestingly enough, not the typical slash audience. :) I could go on for ages about what I do and do not like about slash, but what I like is mostly reserved to what is well-written, rather than conforming to badslash stereotypes (and don't get me started on mpreg!), so let's just assume that I'm talking about the stuff that actually seems like it could be two (or more) people. ;) And ignore anything that includes self-lubricating anuses.

Oh, and if you could quote me as Tristan Cole, I'd greatly appreciate it. ;) It's one of my many pseudonyms...


1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) Interestingly enough, unlike most people, I don't make much of a distinction between original writing and fanfiction. I mean, there are the obvious distinctions in terms of drawing on preexisting source, but beyond that... to have a really good story, you need to have consistent characterisation, believable plotting, etc.... just because the characterisation you're consistent with isn't something you started yourself doesn't make it any less valid, I think. Not that I think you were trying to say that, but some people do, and I think that what I get out of fanfiction is inseparable from what I get out of reading in general.

That said, what I do get out of is enjoyment, and escape. I can get out of my own headspace for a while, and get into someone else's. Regardless of how interesting my life is at times, there are occasions where I just want to be anywhere but here. Also, I've been reading voraciously since I was about three, so I like to think of it as a lifelong habit. There's no way I could give up reading, any more than I could give up breathing.

b) I like character development. Of all things in any kind of writing, viewing, whatever, character development is what will get me to stay. It's why I like, for example, Babylon 5: there's one character who shows up in only a handful of episodes, has maybe ten or twelves actual lines (okay, probably more, but not by much), and actually IS a character, enough to have an opinion of him. You see change in his beliefs, you see struggle... now, imagine that with the characters who show up in every episode. I like the same thing in fanfiction, and that extends to 'shipper fic. The best way to get me to like your story, no matter what ship you're writing, is to bring the characters together believably; while I like some ships more than others, het or slash, I'm not about to dismiss a story because it has something else. What's more important to me is how the author gets the two characters together. In the Harry Potter fandom, I've seen someone write believable Harry Potter/Sirius Black. This is not something that most authors could pull off -- but because you see the thought processes of the characters, because you see how they GET to that point, it works, and I like it.

c) For the most part, I don't differentiate slash ships from het ones, and I like it for many of the same reasons as I do all 'shipper fic. It does, also, provide even more opportunities for character development -- looking at, for example, having a character who previously identified as straight that he or she is gay. Also, as I was going through junior and senior high, slash gave me an outlet for my own homosexual feelings that, at the time, didn't really have any other outlets. It was a chance to go, "They are like me, and they are okay, so that means that I am okay."

And I will admit to liking being able to live vicariously through the characters and enjoy imagining what it would be like to be in a relationship with the hot characters. But who doesn't?


2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

a) Beyond the personal identifications in terms of slash, there's really no difference in terms of what I derive. They all come down to enjoyment and escape, in varying degrees, to some world a little bit more exciting, a little bit more glamourous, a little bit more magical.

[jonathlee.livejournal.com]

(Damn length restrictions) And the rest:

b) Character development. Often, the source doesn't go anywhere near as far as I'd like. There have been fics I've read where the characters end up acting completely differently from how they are in the source, but because of the way it was written, it works, and it's believeable. You see development like that sometimes, over long series (look at Willow, from Buffy: the Vampire Slayer, or Nita Callahan, from Diane Duane's Young Wizards series; Willow's character grows a lot from beginning to end, and you can see the process of Nita growing up as she deals with comedy and tragedy in her life), but it's rare. While all good fiction gives me some kind of development, fanfiction, as you discussed in terms of serial killers and slash, gives me more.

c) Being primarily a reader of fantasy and science fiction, my reading gives me the magic that's lacking in my life; it's easy to believe that someone could fling around fireballs when you're reading about it happening. Also, I'm currently lacking romantic attachment in my life, so vicarious romance (and sex) is certainly fun.


3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

There is a difference, but I'm not sure I could clearly define it. In some ways, it's like... while in reading, I escape from myself, in writing, I explore myself. There's a bit of me in all the characters I write, original or otherwise. I can't write a character unless I can identify with them to some degree, or at least get into their own headspace and understand where they're coming from. Really, though, it all comes down to the characters -- seeing them develop, as I've said, is what I'm here for.


4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I entered fandom kind of by accident; when I was in grade six, I stumbled across a Sailor Moon fanfiction site, and I haven't looked back since. In terms of slash, I guess I got involved in it because it's what I'm living (or what I want to be living, as the case may be). Like I said, it offers even more opportunities for character development than het romance (and I know I've been hammering my love of that like a carpenter). Why do I stay? Because, as much as fandom has its crazies (and BOY does it have its crazies), the people here? Coollikewhoa.


5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

Because straight women like looking at/thinking about gay men. I have no illusions that we gay men are a rarity in the fandom (which I still can't figure out; a lot of gay men complain about the inaccurate representations of gay men in slash -- so why don't they start writing more of it themselves?). Also, supposedly, women are more titillated by reading than by seeing, the opposite of men, so they'd be more inclined to write fiction about boykisses, whereas men are more inclined to film their fake lesbians.

Like another set of responses is desperately needed...

[retrofit88.livejournal.com]

...but I really liked the questions, and the answers I was seeing. Wanted to think about this more, and thought I might as well share my answers.

You can quote me as Retrofit, or as Retrofit88. The age question is easy: I'm 30. Gender is hard, and I'm not too articulate about it, sorry. Most of the time it's easiest to just go with "I'm a woman", but there's more to it than that. I'll have to explore that more at some point. Sexual preference is easy too: about 95% of the time, the people I'm attracted to are men.

Way back when (probably 1996 or so), I started reading a.s.c.e.m (alt.startrek.creative.erotica.modified). Didn't read it very often, but a couple Voyager slash stories made impressions. First web-based fanfic I ever read (about 1997) was Angel/Xander. That's probably what got me hooked.

Mostly, I read M/M slash. Some gen, some multiple-partner-including-women stuff. Rarely F/F or straight-up hetfic. Didn't start writing at all until last year, and I'm still not very good at that.

1a. What I get out of fanfiction in general - Simplest answer is: free reading material. I used to read a lot more fantasy and SF novels (and still do sometimes), but lets face it, a lot of that stuff is crap. Good fanfic (which can be hard to find) is a lot better than bad mass-market genre fiction. I've noticed over the years that I seek out less published genre fiction as I've found more good fic online. I still read primarily published stuff - about 50% my reading is published non-fiction, about %20 published fiction (usually in the more "literary" mode), and probably about %30 fanfic.

1a continued/1b/1c. Genfic; Romantic, 'shipper fic; & M/M Slash fic: I'm not sure what the distinctions are that're being made here. I'm just gonna conflate them, since I don't really care which category a story is in, as long as it's well-written. To me that means believable relationships between characters (_all_ characters), consistent voices, and believable situations (which is not to say no alternate universes, just consistency in them.) I have pretty much the same standards for fic that I have for published fiction.

So what I get out of it is similar to what I get out of published fiction. Fanfiction is special, though, because it is extensions of other sources in popular culture. Long before I ever met fanfic, I was making up extensions and variations on stories I read or watched or heard, and acting them out with friends or alone. It's pretty typical to think "and then what happened?" about stories - I think the body of published "sequels" to Jane Austen's works (notably the several sequels to Pride and Prejudice) speaks to this. It's probably a little less typical to imagine variations on stories (alternate universes, "what-ifs" and so forth), but there's plenty of published stuff like this, too. Specific examples might include Card's Alvin Maker series (alternate U.S. history - what if magic were real, and the settlement and colonization of the U.S. had proceeded somewhat differently), or Gregory Maguire's "Wicked" and "Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister." (Maguire's not a favorite of mine, but the books serve well as examples.)

Re: Like another set of responses is desperately needed...

[retrofit88.livejournal.com]

Continued...

So people do this kind of playing with stories quite naturally. I don't think fanfic as a concept is really all that surprising. I think the reason people find it so strange is that the culture as a whole has accepted the corporate ownership and production of stories; people in general don't think of themselves as a rightful part of the process, unless they are duly-compensated, commercially-mediated authors, musicians, etc. (I'm very interested in legal issues related to ownership and production of information and culture, but I'll try to stop myself from going off on it too much.)

There are some things unique to fanfic that are kinda weird - I admit that slash is strange. Why do (mostly) (straight) (women) readers and writers want all these stories about characters in same-sex relationships? I think it _is_ partly due to the lack of strong female characters - or at least strong female characters in strong friendships or relationships. This explanation holds up better when you thinking about the prevalence of femslash from shows (like Buffy) with strong female characters and strong female-female friendships, and even better when you consider the decent hetfic that comes out of shows with actual strong relationships between male and female characters.

I think another part of the explanation is simple, but somehow seen as surprising in our society. It's socially acceptable for a straight man to be turned on by the thought of lesbian sex ("as long as the chicks are hot, man"); I really don't get why people are surprised when straight women get a kick out of men getting it on. I like how guys look nekkid. Two good-looking guys? Better yet. :)

Porn for men has long been visually oriented, and porn for women, text-based and more plot-laden (yes, I'm talking about romance novels there). So I think sexually explicit fic (and M/M slashfic specifically) is really understandable as an extension of this history.

There are some things in fanfic that are really weird to me. I do find popslash and most RPS really mystifying, and MPREG befuddling. But I think if one could do some demographics on who is reading and writing this stuff, you'd find some commonalities, and probably from that, some could posit some explanations.

(As an aside, the Poppy Brite stuff I've read has been pretty repugnant to me. Talk about obsession with violence and twisted sex.)

Re: Like another set of responses is desperately needed...

[retrofit88.livejournal.com]

Continued again...
2a. How does what I derive from these things differ from each other?
Like I said, I can't really see much of a distinction between genfic, 'shipper fic, and slashfic, because what I'm really looking for is _good_ fic.

2b. How does what I get from fanfic differ from what I get from the source material?
Great question. The first thing is what I mentioned above, the opportunity to play with a story that I love. All the rest grows from that - the opportunity to imagine characters doing things they wouldn't normally do, or set in places they wouldn't normally be, or just extending the story beyond what's shown on screen. I like fic from almost ANY source, but there are many sources where I'm far more interested in the fic than in the source material. For TV sources, it's often because the stories on TV are pretty weak. For movies/books/discontinued tv shows, it's because the stories as corporate-produced entities have ended - but I liked the story, and want to keep taking it to different places.

One thing I do think is interesting - I don't think weak sources often generate a lot of good fanfic. But strong sources can take either of two dichotomous paths in fanfic. They may not produce much fic at all, possibly because the stories really are pretty satisfying as is (I'm thinking the new Battlestar Galactica). Or they may produce a body of fic that's got a lot more good stuff than the average fandom (I think the explanation here must have something to do with good sources attracting smarter-/cooler-than-average fan writers.)

2c. How does what I get from fanfic differ from real life?
Fanfic is fantasy, escapism. Same as published genrefic. Maybe because I have high standards for the fic I read, I don't think it's much different from what you get out of any other form of literature. Stories let you see parts of life you might not be able to experience yourself. Like slaying vampires, or traveling to other galaxies, or being a superhero, or having magic powers, or becoming a pirate, or finding another world in the back of a wardrobe, or growing up Trancendentalist, or finding a husband in 17th-century England...

Also, in real life, I get to have sex. :) Rarely have I had the opportunity to mess around with two attractive guys (but for a particularly memorable night), but fanfic lets me put myself into scenes like that whenever I want a kick.

3. Writing's a lot harder than reading. Because I can't meet my own standards. I can think out extensions to stories (or new stories of my own) in my head, but getting them down in text is slow! I'm far more comfortable writing essays and non-fiction than fiction, because I can't make characters act like real people. Reading allows me to enjoy the fruits of someone else's labor...

I think I addressed 4 and 5 a lot above...

[filenotch.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom. I haven't read any other answers, and am not in many ways a typical slasher. 43, queer, in a long-term partnership (with a man). FWIW:

1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) In general, if it's good and believe me I'm very picky, it extends a fiction universe for me. As a kid I re-read books I loved. The urge to read good fanfic comes from the same place. I want to read it again, be there again, but the story is new. In at least one cayse (ST:Voyager), the fanfiction was often far better than the canon episodes. DS9 fic never appealed to me because the writing o that show was generally quite good.
b) Rarely read romatic fic, with the exception of some slash that veers that way.
c) M/M sex and relationships that includes actual characterization. I started reading it as an alternative to what I call generic slurpy porn. I do not read much "romance" slash, and the minute someone acts OOC (and there's a lot of latitude there) or is treated as feminized by the writer (no latitude there), I stop reading.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?
a) Actually, 1a and 1c do relate for me, in that some excellent slash extends the universe and gives me hot sex and believable relationships.
b) If I can't see it as possible in canon, slash doesn't work for me. To stay in Trek for a moment, I can read K/S and believe it, but there is no slash pairing in DS9 that I would ever believe, and thus, didn't read it.
c) Like most fction, fanfic/slash usually relies on situations out of the normal. If were based in the ordinary, why read it? (I can't stand Updike, either.)

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

I am a writer. I have mostly used fanfic as a tool. I wrote a Voyager novel in order to concentrate on plot and character development, since character and scene were set. Very rarely I get an image I can't get out of my head, and have to write the story around it. But, for the most part, it's been a training ground for me.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

I've been an SF fan since I was a kid, starting with Star Trek and Star Wars, which I saw in its original release. But then, there was no internet fandom (we're talking the 1970s here). There were local SF clubs, etc. I saw my first K/S slash zine at the Atlanta Fantasy Fair in 1982, and was too shy to buy it. I spent most of my time as a comics geek, and came 'back' into TV/movie fandom with the internet in the mid 1990's. I found slash in alt.startrek.creative.erotica, and the rest is, as they say, history. I think I wrote my first Voyager fanfic in 1997.

[filenotch.livejournal.com]

Also, your professors should know that fanfic is nothing new. As I was commenting elsewhere recently, Samuel Pepys notes in his diary that he attended a play called The Tamer Tamed, which was, essentially, fanfic for The Taming of the Shrew. Entry in Pepys diary (http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1661/07/31/).

[the-green-sheep.livejournal.com]

I do hope I'm still in time to help you with this. I'm usually crap at these things anyway, but I shall give it a try.


1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

a) More time in the world that I love, with the people that I love. Nifty, crazy-mad-genius concepts. New, eyes-opening perspectives. Beautiful turns of phrase. b) Same as above, plus making the people that I love happy, and myself happy by consequence. Learning about this weird thing we call love. *Feeling*, although very vicariously, in an easy, filtered, and pure way that real life can't offer. c) Same as above, only with facets of society, of people, that might have been hidden to me otherwise. Also, sex that I can find hot on paper. And seeing people are sometimes feeling exactly what I'm feeling when I watch the show, though this one really applies to all three points.

2. How does what you derive from all of these things differ a) from each other; b) from the source material; and c) from real life?

a) Well, I'd say it's a concentric circles thing. (See above.) Also, ship/romance fic can be about the fulfilling of the need for a particular plot or storyline; m/m slash maybe even more so, with the hot sex and the social angle and all that. While I think with gen, you go in blind, and when you're truly surprised, well, it's the best kind. b) Ah, this one's hard. There are places the source material can't go to, plot- and concept- and visual-wise; also, some media (see: tv) have no real way of showing inner thought processes in a truly detailed or effective way, as writing does, even just with the choice of an understated adjective. (On this note, fanfic is usually less open for interpretation.) c) My real life is so far from this all, I really don't think I can make a significant comparison. Though I'll say it's very nice to have things and people explained to you. You never do in RL.

3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

Uh. I don't really consider myself a writer, or artist, but I have written about two drabbles and a half, and doodled a bit. From the height of this non-experience, I'd say the two sides of the coin are... not only not on the same coin, but barely even on the same planet. (I know. I'm the only one.) It's a very different thing, to me. You may be in the same general fannish headspace where all thoughts of fannish things live, but the inflow and outflow processes are so radically different, in my mind. If I try to draw, or write, it's because I have something stuck in my head, already at least partially existing, needing to get out. You seldom know what you need when you set out to read/watch others' art, but it's about filling up a void you have and usually don't know about too specifically.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

... uh. I... liked the source materials, and I wanted more. I started out seeing the het love, slowly shifted into seeing the slashy one, and now I'm kind of stuck on that and that only by default, in spite of myself, but really, it's all about love for me. Very little else matters. As for staying... well. Same as above, plus habit, plus really freaking cool and smart and talented people. Specifically slash due to personal taste, I believe, both for the pairings and for the kind of thoughts and works they inspire in like-minded folks.

- continued below -

[the-green-sheep.livejournal.com]

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

Well, I'm not sure. I think a part of it is that it is kind of subversive, but in a relatively safe way. It's fun, because you have to look and think to get it, more often than not, and people like feeling smart and in on the joke. On the liberally politically correct side, it's the new black, although this makes for a truly atrocious pun, and people also like to feel unprejudiced and enlightened and stuff. I won't touch on the feminist/by-women-for-women stuff, because I think it is, again, a simple matter of taste to begin with, and all the deep sociological/psychological stuff comes later to me; though there certainly is the fact that many women feel they can never be one half of Starsky&Hutch, because m/m friendships/love totally =/= f/f and f/m friendships blah blah fishcakes, and I think it's kinda true, but who wouldn't want to be a part of that? So we sublimate. Also see: the hot, hot, no-strings-attached-whatsoever, free-from-our-bodies sex. It's good, and it's interesting, and it's fun.

But as I said, more than anything in the previous paragraph, to me it's ultimately all just about love: I see love, and I want it, I want in. My favourite kind of love seems to be that between two men, as far as fiction is concerned. I suppose it is really all about love for most people who are *inside* slash fandom or (romance-oriented, but not only) fandom in general, though I'm not in their head and I really can't say. But I think it is. (It is also, to me, a very nice thought. That in the end, it's just love underneath. I like to believe this.)

As for these things being phenomena to the 'outside' world... all of this is not inside the common, plain, highlighted canons of our society; ergo, it is controversial. People like being controversial, also and mostly by discussing controversial stuff. Plus, this actually makes for a shitload of extremely interesting, intelligent, informed and illuminating talk, amongst all the wank. And we're done.


Well. I actually had a great time writing this. Who'd have thought? ;)

[imagechild.livejournal.com]

OK--I know you've probably finished your paper--and you're probably in no dire need of extra responses, judging from your massive comment count, but I've always been interested in just *WHY* I'm interested in slashfic myself.

age: 26
gender: female
sex'l pref: bisexual
fandom: Stargate, SG: Atlantis



1. What do you get out of a) fanfiction in general and/or genfic; b) romantic, 'shipper fic, regardless of the genders and sexualities of the participants; and c) slash fic, especially m/m slash?

At first, I thought it was just a matter of living vicariously--of finding my own life lacking in explosive love scenes and death-defying acts of bravery, I turned to fanfic to fill that void. But that didn't really explain why SLASHFIC--granted, I'm one of those gender-neutral love kinda people--I don't understand limiting your dating options to man or woman...but why m/m slashfic specifically? The answer is, I have no clue--I think it probably has something to do with seeing men in situations where they are vulnerable--where they don't always have the answers--almost in the traditional "womans" role. I suppose, (though this may be quite erroneous) that it gives readers a feeling that they've had an "aha" moment about the opposite sex--that somehow, by reading this fic, I can better understand the males in my life--the fact that most slashfic is written by females is apparently unimportant to my poor lil brain. Most often, I still believe it's about living those moments you know you can't yourself--which I know is such a cliche--but it keeps returning to me as t he main reason I read slashfic--that and hoping one day to glean enough knowledge from them to write them myself. Ahhhh the circle of life a'la slashfic.

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3. If you're a writer as well as a reader, do you derive a different sort of experience from writing than from reading? How do the two compare? (If you're a vidder or artist, please feel free to talk about that, too.)

I'm an artist-can't write worth a darn, really--and only in the last few months finally understood that I could take my love of slashfic into my artwork. Somehow some part of my brain had frozen, making me believe that slash could not be brought out visually. I think as an artist, seeing those images in your head that a good slashfic evokes is just so mind-blowingly inspirational--and artists being the generally free-thinking people they are, I think it opens us up even more to the possiblilty of introducing "non-traditional" pairings and the feelings that kind of thing evokes. I know the images I get in my head from reading a traditional "romance fic" are way different than my usual slashfic fare.

4. What were your primary reasons for entering fandom--specifically slash fandom? What are your reasons for staying?

it kind of snuck up on me, actually--generally it came from watching an episode of whatever fandom I was interested in at the time--and catching a stray look--an unaccounted-for touch--and wondering to myself where that could have led--it was the drive to further flesh t he characters out in my head--and it just happened to be in a homosexual way.

5. Why do you think slash fandom and slash fiction are the phenomena that they are?

I think from the beginning it was kind of a taboo--it was something a bit off the mainstream--and that always appeals. But eventually I think it just became more about understanding our own sexuality by exploring the sexuality of imaginary characters. I know that's really a big statement to make about something that's just supposed to be for entertainment value--but it rings pretty true, for me at least. Through slashfic, I can begin to tackle some sexual hangups or kinks I have--I can safely explore the emotinal sensations of say, angst or hurt-centric situations without having to actually suffer myself. It's all really quite cathartic, is what it all boils down to.